Well sure, but that's a balance issue; namely bombers being too powerful and requiring next to no skill to fly.
In-rp battleships and cruisers have specific functions and anti-cap capabilities; in-rp they aren't just sitting ducks and would be appropriate to field against ships of same class.
From an oorp perspective I don't understand why those who favour capital ships just HAVE to have such a hard time in Disco, with everyone and their mother trying to limit any and all possibilities of fun for this group of players.
(03-15-2013, 09:21 PM)Anaximander Wrote: From an oorp perspective I don't understand why those who favour capital ships just HAVE to have such a hard time in Disco, with everyone and their mother trying to limit any and all possibilities of fun for this group of players.
When you resort to self-pity and playing martyr, you are just showing that you have no actual argument for this...
(03-15-2013, 07:11 PM)Leppy Wrote: As Agmen pointed out, and you might have just accidentally skipped over, most the systems such as Magellan, Cortez, Bering, Omegas, etc. are currently claimed to be house space even if they're not classified that way in the rules. If you don't believe me, send a request to the [LN] asking to have a zoner cap party in Bering and see what they respond with. You'd still run into the trouble with houses being angry at BHG| for indy hunter caps running wild throughout what the houses claim as their space.
I think you're totally not getting what I'm talking about. But since you're arguing in that topic, I guess your current account is an alt and you have been staying around for several years.
I was talking about 85'th situation with ID rules, which you do remember, that prohibited entrance into the House Space (house space as defined by the server rules). Everything else can be handled inRP by House governments. And it was handled in that way, with instances of governments giving a green light to field capital ships in order to counter capital ship threat from pirates.
Second part of your post was covered by Anaximander.
(03-15-2013, 09:17 PM)Leppy Wrote: EDIT: And just to cut off a possible argument, the reason that the houses, Core, Order, Hessians, etc. field capital ships is because while having less efficiency at killing things, the bigger ships are more efficient in power projection (which the regular BHG doesn't have a need to do)
Wrong. Otherwise, Houses would be fielding Carriers, mainly, and not battleship/dreadnought classes with limited carrying capability. In-game balance has nothing to do with the way things are inRP.
Especially in Hessian case, their need for "Power projection" is below minimum - the frontline is located right in the next system from the one they consider "their own". Only partially related to this case, though.
Battleship efficiency at PP is still lower than that of a dedicated Carrier (while it still has some of Carrier's capabilities), and yet Core has none of those - and if you start going by pure RP explanations, lets be honest - by design, all of their capital shipline are light assault platforms of the corresponding ship classes with relatively low internal volume.
(03-15-2013, 10:39 PM)Leppy Wrote: When you resort to self-pity and playing martyr, you are just showing that you have no actual argument for this...
Anaximander is actually right on that. There is a certain level of prejudice to capital ships among some veteran players. There's also, currently, no clear set of rules (unlike Jinx wanted to point out) under which some factions are given access to capital ships, and some are not. (well, that mainly related to Hessian precedent). Not quite related to BHG, though, since they built their first caps on House Shipyards anyway.
(03-18-2013, 12:25 PM)Knjaz Wrote: I was talking about 85'th situation with ID rules, which you do remember, that prohibited entrance into the House Space (house space as defined by the server rules). Everything else can be handled inRP by House governments. And it was handled in that way, with instances of governments giving a green light to field capital ships in order to counter capital ship threat from pirates.
Anaximander is actually right on that. There is a certain level of prejudice to capital ships among some veteran players. There's also, currently, no clear set of rules (unlike Jinx wanted to point out) under which some factions are given access to capital ships, and some are not. (well, that mainly related to Hessian precedent). Not quite related to BHG, though, since they built their first caps on House Shipyards anyway.
Two things you're failing to take into account with these paragraphs.
First off, the admins have long memories. (No comment on how short personal attributes are on them...) They remember how badly Darkwing abused BHG caps in house space. Quite frankly, we're damned lucky we even KEPT cap ships at all - there were a LOT of serious negotiations and discussions going on between Athenian, me, and the admin team. We did a huge amount of faction development, back story, history (for example, one thing practically nobody realizes is that George Graves, the former Guildmaster of all, isn't really dead - his head is preserved in a jar similar to, but not quite like, what you see on Futurama. That way if Athenian ever has a desire to come back and take over the Guild again, he can do so.), and in general tying things together so that they logically fit - even if from the perspective of someone NOT in faction they don't appear to do so.
Thus, just because something happened in 4.84 doesn't mean that it's been completely forgotten about, and can't end up affecting how the game is played today. Failing to learn from your history automatically means that you're doomed to repeat it.
Secondly, if you've read the infocards and other stuff, you should realize that ONLY the first Core caps were built in Liberty shipyards, due to a need for the ships to exist before the Core was able to get their OWN shipyards up and running. That's something that happens in real life fairly frequently - you hire someone else to build you a prototype or two, or maybe even a small, over cost limited production run, while you're gearing up your OWN factory to mass produce things. This is part of the ongoing, unseen, behind the door role-play of the Core that we don't publicize.
Bounty Hunters GUILD ... - From Wikipedia :A guild is an association of artisans who control the practice of their craft in a particular town. The earliest types of guild were formed as confraternities of workers. They were organized in a manner something between a trade union, a cartel, and a secret society. They often depended on grants of letters patent by a monarch or other authority to enforce the flow of trade to their self-employed members, and to retain ownership of tools and the supply of materials.
First off - association. More than one - not lone wolf hunters. Those are effectively mercenaries / freelancers. We're a group. Trade union - AP Manufacturing; cartel - the Guild itself, hunting bounties; secret society - the Core. All working together to further the hidden and complex aims of the Guildmasters, with many if not most of our regular members not knowing what those are or even that those hidden aims exist. Which from the perspective of most of the regular members if perfectly fine - they get cool and new weapons, neat ships, and they get to go be anti-social on pirates and bad guys and collect paychecks for doing so.
Second - grants of letters - bounty board and contracts with house governments. We're not just out here shooting people randomly - we're working WITH the governments ... maybe so that we can learn FROM them what we need to further our own schemes, plots, and devices...
Seriously, how many times do I have to say this before you start to get it? We're all inter-related, we're not necessarily the good guys, but we have a great Public Relations Firm and so the Order (who are the true champions of humanity) are seen as terrorists while we (greedy, militaristic, power hungry empire builders) are seen as great people. Games within games, and the great game - power and empire building, balancing forces against one another so that the other players don't even realize they're being manipulated while working towards our own goals - continues...
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.