to the Admins

[Bass_masta992]

I say no less than 50 million in CCs in every Battleship hold.

-Here's to making capital ships the Icons of role playing that they should be.

-Yngen

That can work, but it can't. Majority of the problem with the cap ships is the ignorance of "RolePlay" which includes making the amount of cap ships realistic. People are not going to place their own money willingly into the ships cargo and then go try and fight with it. In order for the idea to work it would require a game integrated system that forces you to put money into a losable object. That isn't great though, because then in order to train your ships within faction, whoever loses, loses cash.

If it is turned into a full scale rule and has an accurate way to enforce it, go for it.

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[Niezck]

Point is, however, different.
You attacked Manhatan with your entire fleet.
In RP that is called a suicide mission. Are you going to tell me that you had to attack Manhatan?
And are you going to tell me that you were provoked so you had to use capital ships?
I mean, you were 20 minutes in front of Manhatan (not 20k, i know very well you were first 2k away, and then 7k away from Manhatan) with an unlawful ID and Outcast Battleship.
You were begging people to attack you, with your own appearance there.
Also, transmitting in system "Smugglers and pirates have a safe passage near Manhatan" wasn't helpful.
I exactly knew that in 10 min tops you will have a horde of angry lawfuls to fight.
And are you going to tell me that we were all flying capital ships?
As i can remember, Liquid had a R.Claw, i had a Bomber, and the rest were fighter/bombers as well.
Only one Bcruiser that died earlier was a capital ship.
You were not provoked into a fight, you were looking for a fight.
And in the end, you took Battleship and 2 Destroyers out without any fighter/bomber escort.
Not a single one.

Try using those capital ships one by one, that is my point.
1 + fighters is max for Rogues.
Rogues aren't that powerful as you RP it.
"Cardamine made us rich" etc etc. It doesn't work.
Why? Because they can't hide Battleships and Destroyers, and they need.
And you are RP-ing an attack on Manhatan, while you should be hiding your capital ships from the navy.

My whole point is, you are a bit out of your boundaries, that's all.

1) You weren't there the two (or so) hours before when we first entered and had to face atleast 6 caps. Infact, i wasn't there on Graviton either. Only the destroyers were. They later called me in because they needed the heavy support.

2) I was atleast 10k away most of the time. Yes, at one point i was closer. I then moved away due to the defence grids. I also came closer later on when going to the aid of one of the Destroyers who, after restocking bots and bats during the peaceful part, was being chased by an independant BH BS.

3) I got disconnected before the others died so i don't know about escorts. But even if they didn't, which is likely, that's because a pirate fighter doesn't last 3 seconds when fighting the things we were. There were 2 Lane Security guys (atleast 1 was in a cap, didn't see the other), two or three USS (atleast one cap again), and then atleast one other independant cap. Those combined did all but destroy me, hence me running away. Unlike some, i don't actually like dying in my ship. Yes, i park it near Manhattan but only when it's clear to me that most of the "known" lawful caps have been killed and we're fairly safe.

4) We get capital ships because we need them. We can't even do regular pirating runs now without being jumped on by independant caps. One example being our 3 VHFs in Texas being attacked by a couple of Battlecruisers, a Gunboat and a single Fighter. We, the Rogues, are one of the main allies of the Outcasts in Liberty along with the Lane Hackers. The LR and LH combined do all of the Cardamine running in Liberty and as such are reasonably rich. While i realise that the Rogues are an assortment of generally unorganised criminals i was led to believe that player factions are the elite of thier NPC counterparts. Surely the "elite" of the criminal element in Liberty ought to be fairly intelligent and able to bargain and acquire, after some time, larger ships.

5) Have you ever seen Alcatraz? Regular gunboat patrols and god knows how many fighters there so saying that 1+ fighters is what we should use is complete rubbish. And yes i do realise that you don't see any capital ships there. The point is that the Graviton is effectively a floating base to us. It doesn't "dock" anywhere as such but parks just outside Alcatraz. It is restocked by people taking supplies FROM Alcatraz or similar stations (Rochester as an example). I admit that i do sometimes have to dock at certain bases to either log off or restock myself when nobody is online but from an RP point of view, it is a mobile base and flag to rally around.

~Grav

[Xing]

hm...
there are a lot of suggestions to reduce cap numbers, none are unfortunately easy to enforce.
Personally, my favorite idea would be battleship liscence handed over only on posting a decent rp explaining it on the forum, send a request to the admins.
That way, cap spam, if it still exists then, would only come from roleplayers. I, seriously prefer roleplaying people who use the forum to drive a capship, rather than some nobody that never came to forum, doesnt care about rules, and spoils the fun of everyone shooting at every small fighter he encounters.

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[Jwnantze]

Look, If the BD faction, a much smaller organization than the rogues, can have a BS, I dont have a problem with the LR having one as well. And the LSF have 2, and 'theorectically' they shouldnt have any. And yes, the rogues make a ton of money smuggling, just not as much as the Outcasts. And the corsairs, BHG, and CR/BSG regularly sit in Alpha, and sometimes at Malta. So lay off chopper.

Note: this is not flamming LSF or NovaPG, just stating facts here.

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There is nothing worth living for, unless it is worth dying for. -Elizabeth Elliott

[Equinox]

4) We get capital ships because we need them. We can't even do regular pirating runs now without being jumped on by independant caps. One example being our 3 VHFs in Texas being attacked by a couple of Battlecruisers, a Gunboat and a single Fighter. We, the Rogues, are one of the main allies of the Outcasts in Liberty along with the Lane Hackers. The LR and LH combined do all of the Cardamine running in Liberty and as such are reasonably rich. While i realise that the Rogues are an assortment of generally unorganised criminals i was led to believe that player factions are the elite of thier NPC counterparts. Surely the "elite" of the criminal element in Liberty ought to be fairly intelligent and able to bargain and acquire, after some time, larger ships.

~Grav

Its widely known that the Outcasts are just using the Rogues, ive read it in a few places that they intentionally got them hooked on Cardy so they can have them do there dirty work, its the Junkers that do the last leg of the Cardy run and the Rogues are like street dealers. I've even seen it written somewhere that the Rogues are the equivalent of petty criminals and street thugs.

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[Xing]

Also do I have a big time understanding how unlawful can have something larger than gunboat - destroyer at best, in the case of LR. (except outcast and Order, because first one is very rich while second one stole the Osiris, have plans to build them, all they need is ressources, which can be found plenty in the edge worlds. Not Corsair, sorry but I heard thousands of their excuse they ban mercs because they starve - you starve and you can build battleships? are your elders all became suddenly very senile or something?)

But at the end, this is just to make everyone having fun here and to have interesting ships around. Rply, it makes no sense at all. But for the mod, pirate capships are interesting additions.

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[Niezck]

Its widely known that the Outcasts are just using the Rogues, ive read it in a few places that they intentionally got them hooked on Cardy so they can have them do there dirty work, its the Junkers that do the last leg of the Cardy run and the Rogues are like street dealers. I've even seen it written somewhere that the Rogues are the equivalent of petty criminals and street thugs.

They are mostly petty criminals and thugs. Every organisation has to have grunts. If we're going off the "generic" person then surely Outcasts would just be out of it the whole time? Drugged up on Cardamine. Please do correct me if i'm wrong but i was led to believe that, as i put before, player factions are the best of thier NPC counterparts, the elite. Therefore in a group of criminals you have to have some masterminds behind it. While the Outcasts do just use us to spread the Cardamine around Liberty, we can also get favours from them.

EDIT: @Xing: This is just turning into a faction flaming contest now. This was supposed to be about reducing the number of INDEPENDANT caps so that factions don't have to use them. Not a thread about which factions deserve to have certain ships.

[Xing]

Just stating the obvious, because everybody was going that way as I've noticed.

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[chopper]

Niezck,

Not a faction flame fest at all, trust me. I prefer the term "discussing", and this thread is made like it is.

1) If, when you first entered, you were in front of Manhatan and facing 6 caps, what can i tell you? Don't raid the Manhatan with capital ships only.

2) Ok, that is not too important anyway, you didn't shoot on ships as soon as they undock, that's for sure.

3) A pirate fighter can stand as long as he wants, no matter the capital ship numbers.
That is the beauty of flying a fighter. You can dodge whole day.
Trust me, it can.

4) You say that Rogues and Hackers are main allies, ok.
So, do you see LH flying Spyglasses and Destroyers near Liberty planets?
You don't.
It's not my concern how you acquired it, my concern is do you really need it, in RP.
Look at the name "Rogues" itself. They aren't supposed to fight off capital ships.
They are backstabbers, they disable Trade Lanes and Pirate Liberty corporations.

5) Get 10 Gunboats out and pwn everyone, you won't hear a word from me.
Rogues have their own Gunboat, and Gunboat is a ship that fits their needs best.
Destroyers and Battleships simply aren't.

Now, you maybe noticed that I'm not whining because you are pwning people or anything, I stayed alive, even killed one of your destroyers.
But that's not the problem, my problem is that it shouldn't be like that, really.
I was really glad when [LR] showed up as you were there to change the old Rogue faction.
Yes, you encounter 5 battleships, and then you must acquire battleships.
That is very easy to say, mate.
But, instead of acquiring battleships/destroyers blabla etc to counter other battleships, why don't you try countering them with gunboats bombers?
Everyone can say "I see hordes of independents and then we had to!".
And then chaos would cover the Disco.
Start with yourselves, and the rest of us will try to lower capital ship numbers that independents fly.
But first, Factions have to realize this, and then independents.

It's nothing personal, really. As i said, I'm not asking you to scrap anything.
All I'm asking is that you don't use more then one capital ship (not counting gunboats) at the time.

Look, If the BD faction, a much smaller organization than the rogues, can have a BS, I dont have a problem with the LR having one as well. And the LSF have 2, and 'theorectically' they shouldnt have any. And yes, the rogues make a ton of money smuggling, just not as much as the Outcasts. And the corsairs, BHG, and CR/BSG regularly sit in Alpha, and sometimes at Malta. So lay off chopper.

Duke,

If you search this forum a bit, you will see that I am a very passionate fighter for moving Togo BS to KNF instead of BD.
In more then 5 threads at least.
I totally agree Blood Dragons shouldn't use them as well.
But, the big difference between NovaPG and [LR] is that NovaPG use one Battleship at the time, the rest are fighter/bombers.
And, as i said, that is the best i can expect.
LSF as well, you will also find me in many threads preaching how LSF should look like.
So, no, [LR] aren't the only ones.

As for the BSG/CR thing, here it goes.
Though old BSG is not my concern, I will try defending that one as well.
From the time i joined, BSG never attacked Alpha with more then 1 capital ship.
And that 1 capital ship always had an escort of at least 3 to 4 Vipers.
We were never camping in front of Malta.
We would stay until the battle is over, and then leave.
As for the new BSG, we don't use capital ships.
Attacking planets with fighters is exactly what I'm talking about, that's the way it should look like.
Hit and run, you can't conquer it, you can't bombard it.
I have absolutely nothing against [LR] attacking near Manhatan in Gunboats and smaller.

Also, did you see me complaining when BSG attacked Alpha with 6 Vipers, and fought against 3 Battleships, 3 Gunboats and 2 Destroyers + some fighters/bombers?
Nope.
I have absolutely nothing against it, though it looks kinda silly, it is totally in RP.
We all died of course, but we took some of you with us. And it was fun.

So, no, I am not the bad guy here.:lol:

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[Laowai]

I personally dont like where these discussions are going..


forcing people into factions?


restricting what they can fly?

dont like it at all

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