I'm not exactly sure but I think this subject has been brought up before, but it was quite a while ago and I couldn't find anything physical on it, so I made a new thread.
The Outcasts. Technically, they're a nation, quite an advanced nation as well. They have their own branches of government, science and military as well as multiple systems in their sovereignty. Now technically, since they're a nation, an Outcast citizen would have different things to do, but in-game, they're not represented by the ID.
See where I'm getting at? They have a Navy yes, but they also have groups of transports, different families as well as scientists and the such. Now, from the roleplaying I've seen coming from the Outcast side, be it in-game, on forums or in stories, not everything is owned directly by the Commonwealth, not everything and everyone works for the government. I may be wrong though, but with my experience on the server and the roleplay I've seen, I can justify that I'm not. Of course, the "official" Outcast lore -could- be different, but then I don't see anyone giving a damn about it.
So the question comes down to the matter of the ID. Why do they have a single ID? Do they not have something akin to private corporations dealing with different businesses? Not every "Outcast" is part of their Navy, but the ID doesn't allow differences. Sure you can argue that they don't have a lot of population but that doesn't really matter that much. They've come far from being a group of bandits that rely on piracy to keep living.
I guess the same could be said for the Corsairs but not as much as the Outcasts, since the Corsairs still can't even feed themselves and have to rely quite a bit on piracy.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Does anyone still care about the Outcasts? What's the stance of the devs/admins?
Oh and, if you turn this into a hate fest, I'll make sure your posts are gone. Lots of moderator contacts I got here.
The term house is simply a term given by the house governments to explain what they see themselves. According to the four houses, Outcasts are a group of pirates, an unlawful nation.
That does not mean, that in reality, they cannot act like a house. (Or are simply just a smaller house, compared to the others)
Liberty has the LPI, Navy and LSF, for example, they're all lawful but they each do their own thing, which separates them. Why is this not the same for the Outcasts and their ID?
(05-08-2013, 04:53 PM)Soul Reaper Wrote: ...
Thoughts? Suggestions? Does anyone still care about the Outcasts? What's the stance of the devs/admins?
I would venture that alternate roleplay opportunities in the form of specialised IDs don't exist because it hasn't ever been requested, to my limited knowledge. From what I know, the last few years of Outcast Faction leadership has been focussed mostly on the military aspects of 'cast society.
Is a non-militaristic Outcast ID needed? Could you do anything with that ID which the ordinary ID wouldn't do? Do you need it just so there can be two Outcast Official Factions to balance out the input / development of Outcast roleplay? Are there player groups which are currently focussing on non-military/piratical aspects of Outcast roleplay?
Edit: IDs exist for LPI/LN/LSF because they're large, distinct entities from vanilla; there's an ID for every NPC faction. However, there aren't two (open, non-player-faction) IDs for the -same- NPC faction.
(05-08-2013, 04:53 PM)Soul Reaper Wrote: ...
Thoughts? Suggestions? Does anyone still care about the Outcasts? What's the stance of the devs/admins?
Is a non-militaristic Outcast ID needed? Could you do anything with that ID which the ordinary ID wouldn't do? Do you need it just so there can be two Outcast Official Factions to balance out the input / development of Outcast roleplay? Are there player groups which are currently focussing on non-military/piratical aspects of Outcast roleplay?
Edit: IDs exist for LPI/LN/LSF because they're large, distinct entities from vanilla; there's an ID for every NPC faction. However, there aren't two (open, non-player-faction) IDs for the -same- NPC faction.
As far as I know, there were -some- attempts at making an Outcast faction that roleplayed as their civilians, casual non-slave outcast born people who lived their lives as transport pilots, meaning smugglers, or transport pilots that did runs between their own bases and allies. I don't remember their name however, was some years ago.
As for the part of "being needed", this isn't Vanilla Freelancer, the general playerbase should not be the only ones making new things and waiting for months to have their "idea" accepted. Discovery Outcasts =/= Vanilla Outcasts. There have been several Outcast factions but each used the Outcast ID since it was the only thing they had, which does SEEM to make sense. But again, the Outcasts are a nation, they have different branches doing different things.
If that were the case we could just make a "Republic of Liberty ID", people would just be slapping it on and acting whatever they feel like.
(Which brings my opinion that doesn't have anything to do with this, is that the devs should be focusing more on stuff like this, instead of using up time on things like..Gallia. But it's past the point of arguing Gallia anyway.)
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The Outcasts are much closer to Renaissance Italian nation states than a united Commonwealth. They shouldn't really have a professional navy either - there's no uniting profit motive to enable one to effectively function. Each of the most powerful cartels and households would contribute ships for defensive purposes, but would otherwise use them for furthering their own agendas - raiding and distributing Cardamine.
Strong central governments simply don't work in fragmented, patriarchal societies like Malta. The Council of Dons reflected the power balance much better than the old Commonwealth*, simply because it demonstrated how different interests of varying power were all attempting to steer the political scene for their own personal good. When you think of Malta, think of the venomous Middle-Age politics for the control of Venice and Rome.
Creating sub-NPC factions of the Outcasts to accelerate them to House status is also pointless. It'd just fragment an already dwindling playerbase, when the functions you're proposing are already amply covered by the basic Outcast ID. Evolving the lore can be done through infocards - new NPC IFFs and IDs aren't required.
*Which is now defunct, even in player RP - the Dons have been restored again. If of itself that's neat, because it shows how tumultuous and unstable Maltese politics are, which is logical.
I dont really see the need for more Outcast IDs, you can have all the diversity you need by choosing ships, weapons and the way you roleplay your character. I myself consider that the be a much better alternative then having an ID that labels you as 'LSF Agent Super' or 'LN Soldier Nameless' right away.
(05-08-2013, 04:53 PM)Soul Reaper Wrote: Oh and, if you turn this into a hate fest, I'll make sure your posts are gone. Lots of moderator contacts I got here.
But the thing is that the player faction rules are a direct contrast to allow for such thing, I am of course referring to the one ID per faction limit. And not all Outcast groups RPwise would be doing the same thing anyway, perhaps a group focuses more on smuggling and transportation, would they not acquire larger transport ships? 5kers for instance.
For a more accurate example however, maybe a very influential family of Outcasts doesn't want to make war with the IMG, and would rather do business with them. Or maybe some family would rather destroy one of their current friends for some random reason. Of course, it could be argued that there is a "Council" of Dons and they make the votes and such, but I see how that should matter at all.
For example's sake, let's say there are 5 Dons, and 2 of them want to do something the other 3 don't. Of course vote-wise, the 3 would get their wish, but only technically. The 2 others could still easily go for whatever they want because of the power and influence they have.
"house" is a meta term that describes a gigantic, governed society consisting of various mostly specialized subfactions ( police, various trade corporations that subdevide again into more specialized splinter factions, military and sometimes special military branches )
all others are minor powers.outcasts - like any other comparable group are fairly large but nowhere near as powerful and diverse as houses. they lack the resources, the civilians - and most of all the entire infrastructure.
houses are mostly self sufficient - they do import and export - and also depend on it. ... but most pirate groups have trouble even satisfying BASIC needs ( corsairs = food, outcats = reproduction... ) houses have such basic needs generally covered.[smaller pirate factions fully depend on migration to fill their ranks - and have absolutely no infrastructure to satisfy their needs autonomously]
so in terms of IDs and power ... factions that need to manage all their factions work under ONE ID are usually much weaker than factions that are - per ID - sub devided into specialists.
back with guard IDs - one might have roleplayed the peripheral roles of a faction - and the core roles ( like the administrators and "guards" ... and the "minor" people that do the dirty work ) .. but those guard IDs are gone