DHC only works because they have good mining and trading opportunities, they have hardly any interactions within Rheinland though they are quite hungry for them. BDM only works because they can raid Liberty and generally go outside of Rheinland. Everything below those two is dying a slow death:
RM has all of 3-4 members that actually log (1-2 of those are fresh off the boat newbies who for their own good honestly should see more activity ingame rather than skype chat one). It has a leadership that I'm not sure even knows that there is a problem and if it does then, as far as I and the people I interact with are concerned, it has no intention of doing anything substantial to fix themselves and the faction, never mind the soured relations between them and the Hessians.
RHA has been struggling to find reasons to log after suffmining got boring and Corsair activity dropped off the face of the earth, and lets not even mention the oorp crap between us and the current RM "leadership" - this has made a lot of RHA people pretty much just as apathetic as the RM leaders are. "What's the point in logging if we'll get blasted for it on skype later?" Best example is just recently DHC asking RHA members to come fight them and hardly getting a response so far (with no fault from the DHC side), which is just saddening for me because I'm simply unable to micromanage this kind of stuff any longer. When fights between RHA and RM do occur, they're hardly with the best of spirits too (I wont name names who's at fault, but they'll know who they are), which makes getting people to log even harder. In the end, the number of recruits dropped, so did faction activity, so did the spirit, so did the activity of the house as a whole.
RFP is withering away slowly after multiple leader changes and a number of leaders that either couldn't devote time to the faction or honestly just made things worse for it. It has had no real recruits for what seems to be absolute ages now.
Wilde is on life support for what is probably 2 years now, and quite frankly I'm not sure how they're still even official. Various statements around skype imply they still refuse to have any sort of interaction with anyone who they think can outshoot them, and then some. If I am wrong here, please correct me - though I've still yet to have an actual recent (by recent I mean in the last 2 years) fight with Wilde that wasn't a gank or a quiet run to O-55 - and even those are rare. Lets not even mention the event which was a complete no show despite multiple reschedules.
The LWB are unofficial and don't have much of a reason to fly because of issues outlined above and also certain dev related issues that will be fixed, but it's going to be too late by then anyway unless new people find interest in the faction.
The Unioners are unofficial and don't fly - save some attempts by a bunch of people who are part of RM anyway so won't fly them as their primary characters. Hence this attempt, much like the old RM attempt to restart Bundschuh, is doomed to fail.
The Bundschuh as far as I know have all but dropped off the face of the earth. There may be one or two people still trying something, but judging by their lack of spread it doesn't seem like they have much luck. Not even the RM tech allowance up to gunboat was able to really bring them back (despite how awesome Lugers are on Wraiths, or how great the RM GB is at seizing trader cargo). This would be mindboggling to me, if it weren't for the fact that the Bundschuh are at the moment almost completely reliant on RM/RFP for activity, and when those two factions are struggling where is the hope for the underdog?
Kruger is tainted with the horrible shit of late 4.85/early 4.86, and is inactive anyway barring an attempt to make it return by the same old people who led to old Kruger losing official status in the first place. Suffice to say it's better off if it stays inactive if all the old people who made it bad don't want to leave it alone.
ALG is unofficial and being honest I have no idea how they pull off the activity that they have when there isn't that much they can do as far as I know. It's the one relatively impressive thing about Rheinland these days. The reason for their lack of official status is more related to the hilariously long waiting period before factions get voted on by admins, but that's another issue altogether.
Republican died quite recently and is not coming back. Better death than the kind of life support that they were offering.
Six official factions left, four of them looking like they wont hack it for long.
That's the perception of events from my side. I'm pretty sure I painted a very true, if harsh picture too. Can anyone guess yet what I think the problem with Rheinland is?
The reason why I'm making this thread (no, it's not to troll) is to ask: despite all the "old bollocks" in Rheinland, where are the new people who are interested in continuing the legacy of the factions still present? Why aren't the old, ineffective leaderships being added to/couped by new guys who are interested in the game like they should be? Old disco players who just take it over "because nobody else will have it" and then don't do anything don't count. I know it's nice and unbinding to just have an indie char and log when the officials log to pew the enemy, but when the officials don't log - where is the will to make them log? Where is the will to lead your house or chosen faction? Without the will, factions die. NPC factions, not just official factions. Examples are really aplenty, but I wont bring them up for the sake of this thread.
If people joined my faction with the intent to have an input into the roleplay of the Red Hessians and Rheinland as a whole, the last thing I would do is turn them away or make them think their input doesn't matter. We even make as much of a point to include indies in the process as possible. The problem is not that the RHA is unwelcoming, because it will never be for as long as I still have input into how things are done there, it's that the circle of activity in Rheinland is gone. There is a distinct lack of raids and lack of responses to raids. There is a lack of communication and there's a lack of hope that any attempt at communication will bring anything constructive. Once again I claim the reason for this is a lack of new, refreshing people who want to shape the house and have fun, rather than "follow the leader" and win at all costs.
So the underlying point is: Rheinland's leadership (both lawful and unlawful) has grown stale. It needs input of new people, ideally new to Disco or new to Rheinland, with new ideas about where things should go. The old leaders clinging to their seats are almost making things as they are worse, rather than just "not helping". So I'd like to have the input of those people who thought about flying in Rheinland under an official banner but never did: why didn't you?[
Some disclaimers regarding the nature of this thread will be necessary: It is not really addressed to the existing leaderships, though their opinions on this will be appreciated I suppose (barring a descent into a massive flame war, or digging up the past (make a new thread for that if you want) at which point I'll either invis the posts if it's a trolling attempt, or lock the thread and be quite sad that it didn't turn out constructive). By all means be frank though. I know this post is a kind of flailing about here and there on various Rheinland related things, but this stuff needs to be finally vented and discussed because I'm sick and tired of skype chinese whispers. Additionally I guess we can discuss any "rejuvenation projects" that anyone can think of, it might actually lead to something.
Well... Rheinland was always a problematic child due to leadership issues.
But, to counter point the Wilde thing, three Reavers and two Wilde (who were roleplaying Rheinlanders at the time) raided O-52 today and even outnumbered. Nevermind the npc clouds in that system. XD
But, Wilde are still kicking, and not afraid it seems. At least those two aren't.
As for RM.. Yes, a lot of leadership issues that spanned for like.. the last three, four years?
RHA needs enemies since it's without a doubt a war-need faction.
The other unlawfuls suffers from the plague that assaults the remaining lawful entities.
So.. in a grand viewpoint above this all.. Yes, i agree with you, Blodo.
Leadership in Rheinland (lawfuls and unlawfuls) do need a change. Or a very different attitude.
<3
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:12:00] Traxit: this is smut stop
The main reason why Rheinland is dead, is because people don't like Rheinland, and really, why should they? Back in .85, Rheinland, largely the RM, sealed Rheinland's current fate with all the hostilities. RM was in a major war with Liberty, but they went ahead and got into ANOTHER war with Bretonia, causing them to become even more isolated. This, in turn, hurt the corporations of Rheinland, which hurt Rheinland as a whole.
Pretty much, Rheinland wanted to be a "powerhouse", that strong armed everyone to get what they want, which led to people saying "screw Rheinland" and severing contact with the house. This made player interaction there go down drastically, which bled over into faction activity.
The only way to successfully play a Rheinland faction now, and get some sort of activity for that faction, is to play a diplomatic type of role, which people typically don't like doing, which is why so many Rheinland factions are dead.
I'm trying not to point fingers too much, but it's necessary to an extent to give points of view, opinions, and explanations .
It is hard to say really, but I would say you pretty much hit the nail on the head with all of the stuff said so far. I was in Kruger back before it imploded, that was arguably one of the biggest commercial groups in Rheinland at the time, that killed a commercial aspect. I was in the RM as well, but I kind of went inactive, but I still have my ships, I can re-register and start flying again or something, but even then, what incentive is there I guess, it seems like nobody likes the house anymore due to the politically constipated foreign policy they have been using the past two years. Rheinland is a big cold place, and sure it is nice from a story or RP perspective, but the sheer amount of force pushing out from the house alienated a lot of people.
That and I can't get a proper handle on the Germanglish the players use there, which is why my RM pilot is practically Kusarian.
(05-09-2013, 11:42 PM)Blodo Wrote: It needs input of new people, ideally new to Disco or new to Rheinland, with new ideas about where things should go.
I think that's the problem.
This community is shrinking. Most of the old people I started playing with have left in the past year. At the same time, something tells me that the amount of new players entering the community is the lowest it's ever been.
The problem isn't with Rheinland I fear, it's with Discovery in general. It's based on a video game that is now 12 years old.
The Leaders don't know how to lead. I'm sure you'll ask for specifics about my comment, but the fact is I can't give any because it's...leadership, I'm not saying all of them are bad at leading and running things but most seem to be. And I'm not talking about leadership within' the official factions but rather the whole damn house. Kusari died because people don't like being bullied by pirates especially when the pirates were backed by the damn government.
For Rheinland, I'm not completely sure but from what I've seen it seems to be a complete leadership issue, because the leaders think that since they own the NPC factions they don't have to care about anything and can just tell people to sod off and do whatever they want because the Admins don't care about roleplay (the IC incident can be given as an example), and the current people probably don't want to give away their "power". So I basically agree with your statement Blodo. But what is there to do? Coupe. People have to throw out the current leaders of Rheinland (be it lawful or unlawful) and new people have to be given a chance that way, to bring new ideas.
Edit: Oh and yeah, disco is getting old. Also I hate Rheinland so a part of me actually is laughing at their situation with joy.
The underlying problem isn't Rheinland's decay or Kusari's decay.
It's Discovery's decay.
The problem is apparent across the board....nearly all factions are less active than they were when I took a break a year ago.
From the time I started playing in summer of 2010 to last may when I left due to rl issues, I always had trouble logging in on a weekend day. Cannon even increased the capacity from 200 to 225.
I haven't seen more than 159 people on the server at any one time since I've returned. Granted I work a lot, but still....it seems lonelier in there these days.
Hm- Rheinlands factions are the major problem, at least from my point of view:
-RepEx ,Kruger and DHC are your run of the mill trading factions, each house has one remaining( Bowex vs Gateway, Samura vs Kishiro, IC vs Ageira, synth food&more) here you will never ever get a better activity as the trade system is too open and free to support multiple strong trade factions per house.
-ALG is not cool enough for the hip kids. Who wants to play space-wastemover? thought so.
-The lawfulls are pictured way way waaaay to space-nazi like for me in a way that i have to be actively forced to interact with them and sad but true many of the players flashing these IDs just give me the creeps in a oorp way.
-the unlawfulls are simply al hessians. Regular hessians, intellectual hessians, farming hessians, shipbuilding hessians, mining hessians. It doesn't help that the hessians ever stretched their activities to even encompass the order and the lower omegas and some visits to the omicrons too. You have a bunch of factions and all of them are space-nazi-commies? Boring, uninspired( not to speak of the tech disadvantage you get for choosing anything not hessian).
To sum it up: Rheinland is a creepy place for sensible souls like myself, stuffed with boring crap. And as a potential invading corsair i have to say no thanks from an in and oorp perspective as well as being afraid of wraiths everywhere....
Without some drastic and new steps nothing will happen though, and i am quite sure no one wants to give up their goodies or change anything...at least that is my impression and thus i will stay away from rheinland.
(05-09-2013, 11:42 PM)Blodo Wrote: [*]ALG is unofficial and being honest I have no idea how they pull off the activity that they have when there isn't that much they can do as far as I know. It's the one relatively impressive thing about Rheinland these days. The reason for their lack of official status is more related to the hilariously long waiting period before factions get voted on by admins, but that's another issue altogether.
[/list]
Aye, unofficial and still waiting the confirmation on whether we are official once more, or not. Either way, I personally, and what I gather from the folks in ALG, the combined love for the company and its beliefs is one of the bigger forces behind our activity. I take great care in logging as frequently as possible and rallying others to join (note: I've noticed even without me I have folks logging in on their own, so much love to them), whether that being joining in with IMG convoys, contracts with other factions or just flying around doing some nuclear devices trading and hoping for fun and interesting RP contacts, pirate or not.
Using the rumours on bases/planets and such, alongside with playing with the ideology of for example my own character, I've been working towards creating a more interesting, and possibly dangerous direction for ALG. Unfortunately, factions such as Synth, LWB, Gaians, FA et cetera have a rather low activity 'till none, factions that could work/fight with ALG, so this is a rather slow path. Nonetheless, I, and some of the mentioned factions that still has members that are (semi)active do their best RP'ing with each other. Most described factions have it hard as it is with requests, ID issues, trade-route issues, you name it, but indeed, that's a different story.
Onto your issue.
Now, I tend to be somewhat oblivious to all that has happened in the RM/RHA/Etc circles, in the past and present. Not that I care what has happened, and who hates who and such. It does however, bug me to death, that being present in the Rheinland leaders chat, it generally consists of flame-wars between those present in said channel. Literally stays dead for weeks, then suddenly one evening where it's filled with continued remarks on others, up to the point several folks leaving the chat (last week).
I've had several conversations with folks about Rheinland last few months and although being an outsider on this matter (and relatively neutral, I believe), I do believe things have to change. Seeing what I've read in the Skype channels so far I have a real hard time believing the "core" players, usually in high positions, are able to change, to work together, to listen to each other and not blaming constantly who and what did. I've noticed several attempts from certain people, yet their mind wasn't set to it, which led to the same results we currently see. Only if "we" all decide to actually sit down, preferably with a mediator (admin? smart person? dev? whatever?) and work things out, come up with a plan for short- and long term changes that works out for everyone, Rheinland is in fact, doomed.
Or... Indeed, forced coups to give the chance to able and willing people, young, new or with the right mindset, that of someone who can actually differentiate between his/her character and him/her self. I haven't seen (or see) that many people who are capable of doing so. But this matter presents itself at most places around Sirius. Note, for those who feel insulted by this, think about why you feel insulted. Is there perhaps a sliver of truth there? I'm not out to burn you down, actually, no, I just like to see a more "neutral" or "friendly" stance between those who should be leading a faction, instead of driving it right into the ground and in terms effecting others that do care for their factions.