The Dreaded "Do Sairs Need Guns" Argument, Hosted by Rodnas & Silver

[Blodo]

They haven't posted here either. Oh well, sometimes my memory plays tricks me as well. No worries.

But it was interesting to see. Your link seems to have happened *right* after I joined.

Actually I argued with Carlos on skype in corsair chat about this before he left. Its not like this 3rd Corsair gun line matter cropped up just now.

[Silver]

Pitty they don't reply.

Tsk tsk.

<3

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:12:00] Traxit: this is smut stop

[Rodnas]

I don't think watering down rp is the way to go to get toys, if this server needs anything then it is less watered down rp and more factionalized, atmospheric and immersive things.

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Thanks Blodo for finding diplomatic words and handing out cooled drinks, i do trust you on that and i really really hope the new version will make us happy pandas without causing you more workload, even if i have my doubts about it.
On the shall we mount civvies or not...well, lots of folks do, lots don't all have their reasons. Still calling the Benitez out on 3 year old stuff where so much has changed, i hope we are entiteled to update our opinions as the mod gets updates, too

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Curious, while what you say is somewhat right- this "salas+titan match great due to the core" has to go out of peoples heads...this was before the last "buff". You can't profit from a Titans core while using salas, only with codies or cross tech. If you use salas you are only so-so-ish on lasting power.
For those interested, here a small graph showing some matchups and their staying power...
-click-me- (x= t, y= E)

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Silver i think i can comfortably pass the ball back to you- did you try to make it work? Did anyone claim it was the one and only setup...we are talking options, not absolutes.

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Read about: The Benitez Familia and Trueno Benitez

---Not available for any disco stuff these days(and for an extended period of time to come, too ---

[Silver]

No, but you and Valeria tried to pick that Inferno is like awesomesauce. And that outcasts in general don't use deshielders.
Far from the truth.

I flew in CL} with a Kraken Wyrm Inferno. You need to focus aim to even get a shot at deshielding a snub, gb shield laughs at you when you try to inferno (and get chomped by the auto-aim tz) and so on and so on.

Nevermind the fact that i can't do cd work.

No wonder i changed for a 4 Kraken/3 Deb setup with CD.

Torp =/= Lvl 9 gun.

I have a TBH Code Titan and a Sally Titan. Zero issues. I also fly a 2.00 90% Black Dragon in the Reavers without deshielders. Now imagine that core go 8|

And i continuously say, you want a new hullbuster, you got to lose one of your assigned lvl 9 guns.

Ya know, fairness, balance and shiz between factions.
Or Corsairs are that special?

Plus, you haven't answered my question.

8| Have a ball.

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:12:00] Traxit: this is smut stop

[Sava]

Just asking...
Is it planned to give the original corsair light fighter decent stats?

[Swallow]

Let's trade Legate for the better fighter guns ))))))))))))))))

I actually agree on that.

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FL MOD(EL)MAKING: TOOLS, RESOURCES, TUTORIALS AND MY SHIPS (OLD)

I am on discord: Roal-Yr#5994, I don't log on forum more than a few times a year.

I am not making ships for FL anymore, I am making my own space game instead:
https://github.com/roalyr/GDTLancer
https://roal-yr.itch.io/gdtlancer
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5HQB...cdH45LZgjj

[Exterminator]

So,after reading this topic I went to conn for few fights to test Salamanca mk2 once again (haven't used the gun since that "buff" )
While they do have a decent dps,when you include a ridiculous power drain and compare it with some coded guns (specifically those with 2.00 refire rate) which are much more energy efficient and have greater dps,you simply don't see a reason to use those weapons. I don't have to mention Salamancas are terrible in group fights and pretty much useless on anything other than Titan.
My weapon setups of choice are either 2 Tizzies + codes or 2 Coladas + Flashpoints. Salamanca mk2 is simply too inefficient for my taste (and for most other people too). Giving it its 4.85 efficiency would be a good idea in my opinion. The main reason is that those guns are simply barely usable on Centurion and Decurion.

On the other hand...do Corsairs need a new gun?
In RP,this was said millions of times,Corsairs are a proud nation so they only use ships/weapons made by them. This would make sense for adding a new weapon,however,balance wise this would make people think it's unfair that Corsairs will have a choice to use 3 of their own weapons. However,I found out that every House is receiving its own Civilian weapon,and assuming that unlawful factions from each House will be able to use the civi weapon that belongs to the same House those unlawful factions are in,this actually gives them one extra weapon to use.
This gave me an idea that it would be okay to have another weapon for Corsairs to use.Yes...without losing the del Cid line! I would never want to lose those! Same with Salamancas,they are Vanilla,so I kind of can't accept those gone.
And yes I know,we can use weapons from allied factions. Those are pretty much the same weapon type as Salamancas (exception are Gaian weapons,which are worse than Flashies xd ) and each one of them has lover dps,and I don't need to say FA/Hogosha tech has 75% nerf with Sair ID,which makes them useless.
Unless Salamancas are given proper stats to be usable on Light and Heavy fighters I don't really see why not to add a new weapon.
However,I am patient and will wait to see how will Salamancas perform in 4.87 and we'll see what happens.

Also...Coladas are turned into a bomber weapon? This actually made me both sad and happy. Corsairs are losing the unique class 10 shieldbuster but they will have their own bomber weapon,which sounds very interesting to me,as a bomber pilot. Can't wait to see how they will work.
And damn! Centurion is now a VHF!! This buff kind of surprised me,I love it!

And I think that is pretty much everything I have to say...unless I forgot something.

Keep up the good work,guys!

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Join the Corsair Brotherhood / [TBH]

[Sava]

Agreed with Ex on Salamanca drawbacks.
These guns need efficiency to fit pirates.

[Valeria_Benitez]

My, my, Silver. I must have hit a nerve there, sorry if I offended you with my last post. I am not aware of having been rude or having posted anything offensive.

But on that note I am also not sure where you read me having tried to pick the Inferno as awesomesauce. Lets try to read the relevant line of my post again. Perhaps it got lost in the hectic forum life.

But one cannot say the tizona is generally better than the inferno, or that the inferno is generally better than the tizona. Both are good (or bad) in specific situations. And that is exactly how it is meant to be to my understanding of things.

To my understanding this statement makes it clear that neither weapon is awesomesauce (or bad). Each weapon is good in specific situations.

aerelm understood this (excuse me aerelm!)

and as you said, each is suitable for a different situation

Why don't you, Silver?

How can I help?

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Valeria Benitez

Signature made by the awesome micson128

[Redon]

If we're talking pure numbers here, I'm gonna toss in some senseless math to support the point Silver is making:

Inferno/Hades:

• Shield damage per shot: 25,500
  
• Energy use per shot: 8,670 (Eff: 2.94)
  
• Projectile speed: 550ms
   
  
• Power regen on Sabre: 1,100
  
• Energy use in 16 seconds: ~17,300
  
• Damage output in 16 seconds: ~51,000

Two Tizona del Cids:

• Shield damage per shot: 1,288
  
• Energy use per shot: 290 (Eff: 4.44)
  
• Projectile Speed: 650ms
   
  
• Power regen on Titan: 1,340
  
• Energy use in 16 seconds: ~18,500
  
• Damage output in 16 seconds: ~82,500

And people say Inferno is better than Tizona...

I'd like to point out, one look at the stats of the Inferno (2.94 eff.) should tell you that comparing it to the tizonas on a basis of sustained fire or dpe is a bad idea.

In that category, the inferno is not only outclassed by Tizonas, but also civilian debs (3.97 eff.), by far.

The inferno's redeeming quality, the reason why some players use it, is the same reason why people fire snacs instead of energy cannons - One shot, a lot of damage. A snub can't sit still for 16 seconds and fire at a capital ship that shoots back. You will lose a lot of the 82'500 damage your two tizonas can do while you dodge with a full energy core. An Inferno makes deshielding a gunboat a lot easier, possibly even alone - good luck attempting that with debs or Tizonas.

Against snubs, that's different - snub shields are extremely easy to kill compared to hull and capital shields, and the Inferno doesn't offer the possibility of instakilling a snub that the MR has, either. I don't know if anyone has found a way to make the inferno worthwhile in a snub 1vs1, personally I mostly see it as a handicap. It has a different role than debs.

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The ease with which one can kill the shields of a snub is the reason why I don't think comparing Tizonas to a hullgun line is fair. Perhaps the class 10 coladas used to compensate for that? Not anymore. With those moved to bombers, what is there for the corsair fighters to replace it?
And why refuse them a solution that's nice in RP tech-wise, for something they can get anyway by using civilian flashpoints?

That being said, I also find the practice of trying to create balance by nerfing and buffing different faction guns, all while codes are still open use across all factions, a bit strange. All it does seem to do to me is screw over the light and heavy fighters.