H-Fuel to Battleship Nagasaki is too profitable, looks like it was balanced before the base was moved to Tau-29. The same issue could apply to other commodities as well. Edit: Yeah it does, Sake is ridiculous from Planet New Tokyo.
H-Fuel to Ryuku from Fujisawa is too profitable, looks like it was balanced before the JH to Nagano in Okinawa was changed to Tohoku.
Gold from Battleship Castres, Edinburgh has crazy profitability. It almost looks like the BS was moved before balance and the moved back... It makes for a crazy two-way route with Gold going to Kyushu, and Rice back to Islay and food Rations to Battleship Castres.. not sure what faction would actually be able to run that one, though.
It looks like Battleship Suffolk in New London is selling Marines and there's a profitability balance issue with Planet Leeds. Not sure if intentional.
Along the same lines, Black Market Munitions has some insane profitability! Especially when delivered to Planet Leeds. Not sure if intentional... Looks much more balanced in a no trade-lane/jump-gate path, though still very profitable.
Light Arms from Palemo Base, Eta to O-85 Dreadnought Captana will net a quick 664 profit for a relatively easy route that takes a little over 2 minutes. There's no return commodity though, so I suppose that makes it balanced enough. It looks like the Sigma-19 JH was changed to O85 some time between 4.86 and 4.87 so I thought I'd mention it here.
I will update this post if I find more...
Also, Artifacts and Cardamine are back to their former glory! Horray!
Also, quick kudos for all the hard work on the new commodities. There are more trade routes than EVER!
Edit:Regarding Leeds, I see how it's balanced. You can't dock any transports to the Bretonian side of the planet!\
Echo: Balancing is not a bug. Please take this to the appropriate Economy balance thread.
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As I suspected, all of the reported bugs were fixed when I recalculated for some system changes that had taken place after my last review. The remainder of the issues raised are related to economy balancing and the shift to POB specific supply commodities.
The only significant issue is ALG. Wuppertal provides ALG with probably the only reliable A-B-A trade routes in the game. HazMat Canisters exported, Toxic Waste imported from the same locations. Dortmund also imports Toxic Waste for MOX production, with Wuppertal serving as a storage site for excess. Dortmund and Wuppertal are ALG's only production centers, and they both produce a high value export, which is exactly like nearly every other production center. Only bases that have a very expensive and roleplay restricted export (like Gate Parts or Military Vehicles) have two exports. Neither is the case there.
Neu Augsburg is not a replacement for Helgoland, which was sold to the GMG and became a shipyard. It is the remainder of the Munich disaster, and is in a state of transition with an uncertain future. If it becomes a production center, a new commodity will have to be created for it.
If ALG wishes to claim High Temp Alloy production on Planet Nuremburg, they can do so by claiming ownership of the production facilities on the planet, much like Cryer does on Denver for Pharmaceuticals.
The only way ALG could claim Ship Hull Panels is if they are moved there from Planet Kyushu. But since MOX is already exported to shipyards, that would only create identical routes to what already exist coming out of Dortmund, while eliminating unique routes from Kyushu. No new routes would be gained, while unique routes from Kyushu would be lost, so that's not a good plan.
Just about every production center and planet in the game imports a large number of commodities and exports just one. Multiple production origins for the same commodity vastly complicate balance while severely limiting routes, because all possible purchase points have to be divided up according to which origin they are closer to, unless the production origins are all close together. See Polymers from Tsushima and Douglas for reference, along with Hydrocarbons. The number of commodities where this is done is very, very small. I do not plan any further duplicate points of origin for existing commodities.
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(10-05-2013, 03:36 PM)Xoria Wrote: If ALG wishes to claim High Temp Alloy production on Planet Nuremburg, they can do so by claiming ownership of the production facilities on the planet, much like Cryer does on Denver for Pharmaceuticals.
That's not possible as all of Nuremberg factories and 50% of the planet itself is owned by Daumann, after loss of Leipzig Daumann production of H-T Alloys (monopolist position on Sirian markets) was relocated there.
Scrap Metal prices
I have an issue with scrap metal prices. The moderate price sell points have been removed from Liberty (Baltimore Shipyard paid ~800 credits per piece in 4.86). Besides helium, scrap metal was a "starting commodity" in 4.86, which anyone could mine for starting profit. I don't know if the scrap metal mining rate was changed for non-junkers or not, but could be some higher price points added? 700-800 credit per piece would seem ok. I know that the new concept in which scrap metal is a byproduct of construction, so shipyards sell the scrap metal instead of buying it. But the smelters, like Culebra in Puerto Rico, also sells scrap metal which makes absolutely no sense, since it should buy it at a high price for reprocessing. My suggestion is: junker bases pay a bit higher price for scrap metal (500-700 credits), and Culebra pays even higher (900-1200 credits), thus creating a supply chain of scrap metal.
(Sorry for putting this here, but I could not find an economy balance thread for 4.87 anywhere.)
Other:
Unlawful ore buying bases
I heard as a suggestion/rumor before, that unlawful bases will buy ores (and other valuable commodities? like gate/lane parts for hackers, it would be inRP) for ~half of max. lawful sell prices, to promote ore cargo piraty. Has this been implemented yet, or if not, will it be?
Good to hear ALG stuff is being worked on.
The general shift towards most bases having a unique exported commodity and very few having more than one is noted, I guess we'll see how that plays out.
(10-05-2013, 03:36 PM)Xoria Wrote: Neu Augsburg is not a replacement for Helgoland, which was sold to the GMG and became a shipyard. It is the remainder of the Munich disaster, and is in a state of transition with an uncertain future. If it becomes a production center, a new commodity will have to be created for it.
I meant replacement in the sense of being the third ALG base, and the one near what I presume is supposed to be a scrap mining operation (haven't checked if mining is on now in update 2 yet).
The thing is, there's currently no commodity at all exported from that location, neither from the Junker nor the ALG base.
Is there a specific reason why nuclear devices were removed from ALG?
I'd say selling them at the Augsburg wreck would make sense: they could be salvaged, usable reactors repaired at the facility or assembled from salvaged components. We have the know-how.
Quote:If ALG wishes to claim High Temp Alloy production on Planet Nuremburg, they can do so by claiming ownership of the production facilities on the planet, much like Cryer does on Denver for Pharmaceuticals.
The only way ALG could claim Ship Hull Panels is if they are moved there from Planet Kyushu. But since MOX is already exported to shipyards, that would only create identical routes to what already exist coming out of Dortmund, while eliminating unique routes from Kyushu. No new routes would be gained, while unique routes from Kyushu would be lost, so that's not a good plan.
Dortmund currently doesn't function as it should in-lore: as a smelter, importing scrap and making some sort of metallurgic product from it.
I really don't know why Oder shipyard imports scrap metal (it already did in 4.86) and not Dortmund.
The premise is that Dortmund imports scrap, which ALG collects (previously primarily in the Yanagi cloud), to extract metals and remake them into Hull Panels.
This fits the lore including rumors already in place.
If it were moved from Kyushu, Kyushu would still have unique routes with Kyushu rice, but actually it might make more sense to add a third Hull Panel commodity.
New Berlin is far enough away to supply a different market with presumably different hull panels.
While Hull Panels would make the most sense, it would be nice for Dortmund to have some metallurgic product to export, since that is what a smelter should be doing, thus the mention of Manifolds which would be a logical result of scrap processing, or high-temperature alloy which we produced previously.
The market for ship hull panels should be sufficiently different from MOX, far more specialized. It would be limited to shipyards and inhabited, ship-producing planets, while MOX would be purchased by anything that requires a lot of fuel: industrial facilities and battleships primarily, and planets undergoing significant expansion such as Miura.
Actually though, it would make more sense for MOX production to be shifted to Wuppertal anyway, as a product of a refinery rather than a smelter.
MOX production at Dortmund was, after all, a remnant of when toxic waste was bought there, implying MOX is produced by processing the waste.
If they absolutely cannot have more than one export product, it would make the most sense to have MOX sold at Wuppertal and Haz-Mats at Dortmund.
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Switching HazMats to Dortmund and MOX to Wuppertal is not an enormous job, but it is not a small one either. Since c/sec is tied to the base more than it is to the commodity, the profit margins will not switch, so MOX will be more profitable and HazMats less profitable. I can't promise this in Update 3, but perhaps by Update 4 or after.
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(10-07-2013, 01:14 PM)Karst Wrote: Dortmund currently doesn't function as it should in-lore: as a smelter, importing scrap and making some sort of metallurgic product from it.
I really don't know why Oder shipyard imports scrap metal (it already did in 4.86) and not Dortmund.
The premise is that Dortmund imports scrap, which ALG collects (previously primarily in the Yanagi cloud), to extract metals and remake them into Hull Panels.
This fits the lore including rumors already in place.
If it were moved from Kyushu, Kyushu would still have unique routes with Kyushu rice, but actually it might make more sense to add a third Hull Panel commodity.
New Berlin is far enough away to supply a different market with presumably different hull panels...
...Actually though, it would make more sense for MOX production to be shifted to Wuppertal anyway, as a product of a refinery rather than a smelter.
MOX production at Dortmund was, after all, a remnant of when toxic waste was bought there, implying MOX is produced by processing the waste.
If they absolutely cannot have more than one export product, it would make the most sense to have MOX sold at Wuppertal and Haz-Mats at Dortmund.
Maybe and this is Just a thought, have ALG have their own unique "method" of making Mox using Toxic Waste(Inrp) and Scrap metal allowing Scrap Metal and Toxic waste to be imported there and then MOX brought out. just a thought.
It appears that currently the Light Arms commodity is only imported by the Council and Maquis bases in Gallia. The only exception appears to be Planet Marne, the Council home world in Champagne, which seems to be an oversight. I would like to add that it seems like an oversight that the Brigands and Unione Corse do not import this commodity. Gallic Brigands have lore(news item on their bases) that says they've made contact and deal with the Liberty Rogues, so they should have access to these guns. Additionally, the Unione Corse has recently opened up relations with Liberty lawfuls that should give them access to these weapons, not counting Junker sale points. For example, currently a trade run of Blue Diamonds from Gleize Depot to Rochester Base doesn't allow a closed loop of Light Arms back because Gleize only imports the Rheinland Side Arm commodity. I'd like to see this addressed so that the Brigands and Unione Corse are equal opportunity weapon importers.
================== smuggling
==================
i dunno if its placed here right - but its nearly impossible to smuggle a bit - you get scanned by lawfuls nearly each 5 seconds when closing a tradelane cross or a lawful patrol point - no chance not getting scanned
================== New Base Supply Stuff
==================
supplying a base with new goods makes you show anyone else that you are a base supplier - everyone can follow you - base will be found even if good hidden.
- there are no other points where you can trade with supplying goods
- all base supply goods cost the same at each point you can buy them selling them elsewhere makes no sense
is it possible to add a few more points for base goods with diffrent prices? (like we had with Basic Alloy from new tokyo to honshu - profit 50 SC - ) even if you cant buy them at honshu
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