I'm saying for guys who want to use a barge solely for storage, a PoB is a much better investment.
I suggested a cruise of 150 because, compared to EVERY other craft in the game, that is still way slow. Less than half of any other ship. So, I don't see how that and even a 2 min. cruise charge time would make the Barge OP in any way. All it does is make it a bit less of a snail in space.
Let's say JUST those two changes were made, what are your real concerns about what would happen to the barge?
I just like it slow, that's all
Making it faster (in my opinion) would ruin it....it doesn't really need to be that fast, but again....this is just my opinion.
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I SAID, IT MATTERS WHAT I MEANT!!!!
(10-29-2013, 05:09 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Well, that's more of a problem with the escorts than with Barge itself, isn't it? I could see maybe......MAYBE a slot or two for GB weapons. But 12 Cruiser turrets?? No way. The vessel, both by name and design, is a large transport vessel. It's purpose IS to move large amounts of cargo. It is not meant to be a mobile superfortress (we already have the Nephilim for that) nor a space station (we have PoBs for that).
12 regular cruiser turrets wouldn't make it a superfortress.
Take a Nephalem. Make it even bigger. Remove its battleship shield and give it a transport shield. Make it turn several times slower and fly several times slower.
Even with a full battleship loadout, that ship would be easily killable by a single bomber; the only thing that stops a lone bomber from killing a battleship is the battleship shield.
Now, take away all the battleship turrets and just give it 12 regular cruiser turrets. It won't stand a chance, even a fighter could kill it alone if it was given enough time.
The 12 cruiser turrets which I proposed was merely because a ship the size of the barge needs more range, right now it has to use the slowest weapons, Charons, incapable of hitting a fighter with a ship that size, just to shoot past its nose. It needs cruiser turrets just to have enough range and speed to make bombers stay a little bit further away when they shoot instead of literally hugging its hull and making it impossible for escorts to kill them.
The problem with trying to balance things is that the community is full of people like you with no sense. You think giving something a buff automatically makes it an overpowered killing machine, and you never bother to stop and think about what it would actually be compared to other things in the game.
Regular cruiser turrets are better than transport turrets, yes, but not by much.
Why not just give it some new gun....that ONLY the Barge gets....not that I think it needs any new guns >_>
The thing with cruiser guns is the power core would have to go up with it, that would make it be able to jump by it self....
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I SAID, IT MATTERS WHAT I MEANT!!!!
@Inferno - Oh, I have no sense. That's the solution. Heck, let's give the Barge 20 BS turrets and a built-in cloak while we're at it, because, why not? FYI, I'm ALSO suggesting giving the ship a buff,.just a different one than yours.
Don't make it personal, because when you do, folks don't care if your ideas are good if you act like a jackass.
Back to discussion, you previously make the point that the amount/type of guns is irrelevant, because it's the shield that prevents the ship from being killed by a lone bomber. So, why not just keep the guns the same, but give the Barge a BS shield instead?
Better shield would not be a bad idea, a BS one might be a little to big, maybe a cruiser one.
But hey....I really don't think that the ship will be changed anyway xD
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I SAID, IT MATTERS WHAT I MEANT!!!!
(10-30-2013, 12:04 AM)Highland Laddie Wrote: @Inferno - Oh, I have no sense. That's the solution. Heck, let's give the Barge 20 BS turrets and a built-in cloak while we're at it, because, why not? FYI, I'm ALSO suggesting giving the ship a buff,.just a different one than yours.
Don't make it personal, because when you do, folks don't care if your ideas are good if you act like a jackass.
Back to discussion, you previously make the point that the amount/type of guns is irrelevant, because it's the shield that prevents the ship from being killed by a lone bomber. So, why not just keep the guns the same, but give the Barge a BS shield instead?
Giving it a BS shield would make it a solo powertrading ship where it is immune to lone bombers, meanwhile escorts would still be useless because the shield wouldn't do anything to stop enemies from hugging your hull.
The whole point of giving it cruiser turrets is that it will still be completely incapable of defending itself, BUT it would force attackers to make evasive maneuvers to dodge its shots, and would make them shoot from further away so that they don't get hit. This would allow escorts to actually be able to have a chance at shooting them.
I did not propose giving it a battleship core for solo jumptrading, so stop making apocalyptic scenarios that wouldn't actually exist. I only suggested giving it a heavy gunboat power core.
The way it is right now, you basically have no weapons, so they can hug your hull without fear of being shot from being so close to your ship, while escorts have no chance of hitting them because they're flying in circles around your enormous ship.
Well, I didn't suggest giving it a BS core for jump trading either, so....kudos to us.
I think we're approaching our suggested buffs from opposite uses. Yours suggests the primary function of the ship is to be a mostly immobile storage depot, whereas mine address the Barge's function as a transport.
What about GB missle turrets? Would those be a viable option? I haven't flown anything on .87 yet, so I don't know how well those might work.
Even with a BS shield, you solve the bomber problem without adding/changing guns, and it wouldn't necessarily be a power trading ship due to the slow speed. There'd certainly be time for several bombers to take it down, at least.
(10-30-2013, 01:04 AM)Highland Laddie Wrote: Well, I didn't suggest giving it a BS core for jump trading either, so....kudos to us.
I think we're approaching our suggested buffs from opposite uses. Yours suggests the primary function of the ship is to be a mostly immobile storage depot, whereas mine address the Barge's function as a transport.
What about GB missle turrets? Would those be a viable option? I haven't flown anything on .87 yet, so I don't know how well those might work.
Even with a BS shield, you solve the bomber problem without adding/changing guns, and it wouldn't necessarily be a power trading ship due to the slow speed. There'd certainly be time for several bombers to take it down, at least.
I never said anything about making it immobile. I actually suggested buffing its speed, but removing its docking capability so that you would need at least one transport in your convoy to load/unload it, which would increase interaction and make it more interesting.
Giving it a BS shield would not solve the issue with bombers. It would still be annihilated by bombers and the barge would be helpless against them as they hug against its hull while escorts cannot kill them because they are too close to the barge and flying around it.
If the barge was given better weapon coverage, it would be able to force them to make some evasive maneuvers and shoot from further.
You keep acting like cruiser turrets would make it a fortress, they wouldn't, it would still be very weak. I explained above and I don't feel like doing it again, just THINK for a second, a ship that size, with 12 regular cruiser turrets, it would not be "invincible", it would just make bombers shoot from further away instead of right on top of it.
Imagine yourself flying a battleship the size of a barge, except instead of 20+ battleship turrets, you have 12 regular cruiser turrets and a transport shield. Do you really think you would be a "superfortress solo powertrader" as you kept claiming it would be? No, you would just have enough guns to make them stay further away, shooting at you from a range of 500m or more instead of flying around you at 0m without threat of getting shot by you.
Quote:If the barge was given better weapon coverage, it would be able to force them to make some evasive maneuvers and shoot from further.
Well, even with limited mobility and transport shields, 12 cruiser turrets is still quite a bit of firepower for an over-sized transport, imo.
Well, this is also very dependent on the skills of the pilots involved, as is your example of the inept escorts. I would still see such a barge as just as vulnerable to a skilled bomber pilot(s). What about the suggestion of GB missle turrets?
You've given a lot of defense to your own suggestion....do you have any feedback on mine, aside from suggesting I'm an unthinking moron? Or, do you regard the Barge's apparent vulnerability to bombers as its only flaw worth addressing?
