Zoners

[Echo 7-7]

Well... it influences where the system should be, and what should be in it.
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Because of the unique position I hold as a Developer, I don't have to obey that flow of causality. Besides, I already have a strongly held vanilla-orientated perspective on the present and future of Zoners, which is unlikely to be easily dislodged - systems are provided for Zoners to choose to inhabit, not the other way around (systems being created to meet the demand of Zoner habitation).

Again, the Zoner lore only says that they wanted to escape the existing houses. There's nothing that says they were inherently opposed to the idea of living in a community of that size.
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While there is nothing to disprove this theory, there is also nothing to support it either. You're clutching at straws - you're going to need some more substantial evidence. Note that the existing Zoner assets (bases and ships) do not qualify as such since their original submission to the mod was weakly moderated, and lacked unified guidance relative to other systems and factions. In other words, while this is Discovery, you'll need vanilla evidence to support your theory as a logical continuation from said lore. Otherwise, you're not telling us what Zoners are, but are instead offering a brand new direction for the faction to take. Since Zoners aren't a unified faction anyway, that sort of proposition is still weak.

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There was a sig here, once.

[lIceColon]

It is COMPLETELY INRP for certain misguided Zoners to try to make a Zoner house

And There's Nothing Wrong with Rp-ing a Zoner trying to make a Zoner house

edit: As with various RL examples such as Nazi and Communists and Bush taking power, even a bad idea can succeed if the Zoner house zoner in question had enough persuasion and support to form an actual government

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No atmosphere? GTFO.
The propeller is the greatest invention of all time.

[Trogdor]

Well... it influences where the system should be, and what should be in it.
...

Because of the unique position I hold as a Developer, I don't have to obey that flow of causality. Besides, I already have a strongly held vanilla-orientated perspective on the present and future of Zoners, which is unlikely to be easily dislodged - systems are provided for Zoners to choose to inhabit, not the other way around (systems being created to meet the demand of Zoner habitation).

It's disheartening to hear that I have to struggle against such bias. But I am persistent when it comes to the wellbeing of the Zoner faction, as you've probably figured out by now.

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However, I do not entirely disagree with you. I definitely do not want another system that feels artificial or too convenient. I can work with that.

Again, the Zoner lore only says that they wanted to escape the existing houses. There's nothing that says they were inherently opposed to the idea of living in a community of that size.
...

While there is nothing to disprove this theory, there is also nothing to support it either. You're clutching at straws - you're going to need some more substantial evidence. Note that the existing Zoner assets (bases and ships) do not qualify as such since their original submission to the mod was weakly moderated, and lacked unified guidance relative to other systems and factions. In other words, while this is Discovery, you'll need vanilla evidence to support your theory as a logical continuation from said lore. Otherwise, you're not telling us what Zoners are, but are instead offering a brand new direction for the faction to take. Since Zoners aren't a unified faction anyway, that sort of proposition is still weak.

Doesn't every new Zoner group take the faction in a brand new direction? Where is the vanilla evidence to support the existence of TAZ or OSI? Those were completely new things that we added because someone thought it was a good idea. (And it was.)

As far as there not being vanilla evidence to support the idea that the Zoners would want to try their hand at starting a House.. Well, you're right. Just as there is no direct evidence against the idea, there is no direct evidence for it, either.

However, the Zoners are idealistic and ambitious, and they are always expanding outward, evidenced by their vanilla bases in the Omicrons, Sigmas, and Taus. Like lIceColon said, it may not turn out to be a good idea. Remember, Freeport 7 got Nomad'd.

It shouldn't be too hard to justify without coming across as a contrived mess, either.

The Zoners find a semi-habitable planet. The atmosphere isn't too good though, so to start, it has a docking ring, but it leads down into one of those bases that looks like it's inside an asteroid. It's an underground colony.

Why did the Zoners decide to settle here? It shouldn't be too hard to come up with that. Maybe the system has mine-able nebulae. Maybe the planet has valuable mineral wealth (whether it actually sells ore or just uses this tidbit inrp).
Or... ooooh. Maybe the surface is covered in toxic swamps. Maybe one of the Zoners discovers that some of the chemicals on the surface have the potential to be refined into a drug that can treat or reverse the effects of cardamine addiction. Or, maybe it can just block the genetic alterations caused by cardamine.

Bam! Everyone would want that stuff, either for themselves (Cryer, pirates/smugglers who deal in the Cardamine trade) or to block its export (Corsairs, since they hate Cardi and wouldn't want a treatment made available to the Outcasts). Maybe some groups want to use it as an assassination poison, or make a chemical bomb with it.

The Zoners use the income from their export to pay Planetform to come in and start to make the surface habitable for colonization.

As for other bases... I dunno. I would like there to be a research station and a shipyard, mirroring the amenities of O-74, but maybe that could be reserved for an update further down the line.

There is so much potential for plot development, roleplay, and activity here. You could revive the Corsairs, RoS, AND Gaians with this. Synth Foods. So many different factions would want to come down to the southern Omegas (assuming the trip was profitable enough for transports to bother). I am getting giddy just thinking about it. I hope you can see the benefits of this, because that is my strongest argument for making this happen.

Many in this thread are asking, "Why?" I ask, "Why not?!"

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[Thyrzul]

Again, the Zoner lore only says that they wanted to escape the existing houses. There's nothing that says they were inherently opposed to the idea of living in a community of that size.

The Zoner lore not only says they left the current houses, but also says why. They are not really opposed to living in a community of that size, rather to the ways how said communities are to operate in order to survive. Growing big has the inevitable effect of the whole society of a community getting sorted into a set hierarchy, and the Zoners on the bottom would dislike those on the top just like how they disliked those on the top of Houses. Zoners know this and that's why their communities don't really grow bigger than a certain size. That's why you don't have a Zoner unity.

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[Trogdor]

Every Zoner station has an administrator, security, workers, and people who are 'in charge' of various other functions. I don't agree that scaling the group up in numbers somehow makes this structure intolerable for them. It's other factors - arrogance, greed, corruption, abuse - that drove the Zoners away from the Houses they lived in. The Zoners are supposed to be unique in their camaraderie. Their idealism makes them resistant to those pitfalls.

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[Haste]

Well... it influences where the system should be, and what should be in it.
...

Because of the unique position I hold as a Developer, I don't have to obey that flow of causality. Besides, I already have a strongly held vanilla-orientated perspective on the present and future of Zoners, which is unlikely to be easily dislodged - systems are provided for Zoners to choose to inhabit, not the other way around (systems being created to meet the demand of Zoner habitation).

It's disheartening to hear that I have to struggle against such bias.

Bias? That's an interesting name for it. I'd call it common sense: Zoner lore is developed from vanilla lore. Additions in a time that nobody really gave a [censored] about lore and that, frankly, shouldn't even exist, are not what you'd base the continuation of the lore on.

Again, read that wiki page I referred you to. Check the list of Zoner bases. Check their rumors. Zoners were a relatively minuscule "organization" (if you can call it that) in vanilla - why people want to change them into a warmongering* powerhouse is beyond me.

*) Yes, I like this word quite a lot when discussing Zoner(ZonerZoner)s.

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[Jinx]

you have to be fair(er). i do not think trogdor has in any way suggested he was supporting zoners to become warmongers or even revolving around military organizations.

vanilla tells us but one thing.

- zoners use the biggest transports available for private pilots ( dromedary ) [blame disco for having an economy and prices that revolve around 5000 cargo and not 275]
- zoners are diverse and the only common denominator is that they are called "zoners" by others (which happens to be something greatly different from calling themselves zoners)
- they have left the houses for various reasons of which we can only speculate. these may involved poverty, laws that restrain their ideals, oppression, fortune finding etc. .
- they are a fluent community. While in some more stererotypical factions it is hard to get into them and even harder to get out (like corsairs). becoming a zoner is easy, it is also easy to leave the group known as "zoners". (a number of BHG are zoners, a number of miners are zoners, and we can assume that a good number of people who once were called zoners have returned to the house space for various reasons - after all... house politics and situations have changed)
- while many closed up edgeworld communities' growth rate depends on breeding, wellfare and satisfaction of basic supplies, zoner growth rate is a reverse mirror of how content the people of the houses are. the happier they are with how the houses are run, the less zoners, the unhappier they are, the more zoners.



to sum the last point up...


the houses have been at war for a significant amount of time. war "can" - under certain circumstances - demolish entire societies - forcing them into a social pattern ( patriotism, nationalism etc. ) that makes them feel unhappy. a solution is to flee those systems to escape exactly those patterns.

now - that goes two ways. if we assume that zoner growth is affected by being tired of the wars the houses have waged for several versions. we can also assume that they might not want to wage war in the edgeworlds.

but in the edgeworlds they are facing dangers that put them into greatly different situations. they do not fight for an abstract ideal of some goverment - or die for the riches of a mega corporation. they defend themselves and their personal existance... sometimes pre-emptively.

that does not make them triggerhappy warmongers. - but it can.

but what happens when zoners go on the warpath? - they are probably still zoners .. UP TO A POINT - beyond that point they might realize that it is easier to join one of the existing factions around. a zoner who has seen himself or his family being oppressed and threatened by the corsairs might well consider to join the BHG or the Hessians rather than to rally other zoners - but it takes a while to get to that point.


is it ooRP for zoners to rally under a zoner group and fight back? not at all
is it inRP for other zoners to disagree with such a group? of course - after all, it is OTHERS calling the entire lot "zoners" - doesn t mean that they all have to like each other.. its just disco rules that they must not shoot each other when using a "zoner ID"

it would actually be nice if the admins allowed zoners to fight among each other if it was based on sufficient reason. much more likely for a zoner to kill a zoner than a corsair to kill a corsair. zoners do not have a shared identity - like at all.

does it make sense that they all use "zoner stuff"? no, but thats a game limitation.



but in general - the lore designer of freelancer Chris Todd was contacted. if he is in a mood for it - he might reply with his idea of what zoners were meant to be - so the whole pointless back and forth ("my interpretation is right, and you stink")-discussion can stop once and for all.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Sabru]

i have to agree with one thing......

it would actually be nice if the admins allowed zoners to fight among each other if it was based on sufficient reason. much more likely for a zoner to kill a zoner than a corsair to kill a corsair. zoners do not have a shared identity - like at all.

this would enabled the O-74 problem to have been solved easier.

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[tyro]

zoners fighting each other?
time to retiring...

[Jose Benitez]

it would actually be nice if the admins allowed zoners to fight among each other if it was based on sufficient reason. much more likely for a zoner to kill a zoner than a corsair to kill a corsair. zoners do not have a shared identity - like at all.

If factions can start to shoot at each other then what is the point of factions - other than a rough and ready political guide? If you are simply referring to this opportunity being open to Zoners (which will cause issues with other factions I suspect) then why not make the Freelancer ID able to do all the stuff a Zoner can do, and delete the Zoner ID?

We might as well simply throw away all of the factions as we think of them now and just ask people to write their own set of "faction rules" that they can abide by until such time as they see fit to change them.

This game is (politically) complicated enough without adding yet another layer isn't it?

I agree that as a principle it would make for a more "realistic and open RP" but in truth the cost, in respect of the added layer of complexity, would be such that I don't personally think it would be worth it.