What can I say?
I'm going with fashion and todays fashion are suggestion but I have Q first:
Can people (community-others than Admins and Davs) here suggest some player to be developer??
If we can (perhaps?) than I have suggestion here:
Ah don't worry I will not suggest myself , but I would like to suggest:
Jack_Handerson for developer team.
Well here is what I think, Jack have some good ideas.
I dare to say that 80% of his ideas are very good.
Also man have some common sense and is not easy to piss him off like some others with power here.
Soo common people, respected devs and admins, what do you think?
ps; Pavel I guess you have work to do here...well what do you wait move this thread.
.
Lords will rule their land as they see fit, and the serfs shall merely beg.
Would you pay them money/ask them first along with your suggestions ?
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
Sure you can suggest anyone you want, but it takes more than a person who has suggestions and opinions. There are different people focused at different aspects of development, some make models, some crawl through numerous INI files, editing properties, adding new entries, crosschecking references across wide number of files, some do flhook plugins coding, some do particle effects, system editing, so on and so forth. Everyone has opinions and some can turn opinions into suggestions, but it takes more than that I'm afraid and that is actually implementing said suggestions. If a person is willing to learn actual process of making stuff happen and spend considerable amount of free time on that (and that is a lot of free time spent on that) - sure, but otherwise it doesn't make a break. But know what kind of personal hell one is getting self into there, and, as we've seen lately, how viciously ungrateful and self-entitled public can be. Some people hold illusion that all those tasks are relatively easy and simple to do. If only it were true...
Back a few years ago I tried getting more people into development, looking for folks who might be interested, teaching them what I know, system editing, modeling, making various FL-specific things and how they're done in FL. But when people realize how much work it takes they just leave. Few remain and not for long. So eventually I stopped bothering, it takes good amount of time to teach someone and then, and if nothing happens and the person goes "Nay, I got better things to do, I'll go play CS/Dota/WOT/WOW/etc instead" then honestly what motivation would be there? Even I got to my limits of patience about two years ago and quit disco because just about everything around here pissed me off. Yet I'm around, it take a certain amount of craziness to hold there despite there are no benefits in doing what you do - it ain't job, and spending considerable amount of time on making things here means that you sacrifice other things you might be doing with that time instead. So if anyone tells you it all very simple - well it ain't, it's a hell and one that you sign into willingly.
(01-27-2014, 10:42 AM)Treewyrm Wrote: Sure you can suggest anyone you want, but it takes more than a person who has suggestions and opinions. There are different people focused at different aspects of development, some make models, some crawl through numerous INI files, editing properties, adding new entries, crosschecking references across wide number of files, some do flhook plugins coding, some do particle effects, system editing, so on and so forth. Everyone has opinions and some can turn opinions into suggestions, but it takes more than that I'm afraid and that is actually implementing said suggestions. If a person is willing to learn actual process of making stuff happen and spend considerable amount of free time on that (and that is a lot of free time spent on that) - sure, but otherwise it doesn't make a break. But know what kind of personal hell one is getting self into there, and, as we've seen lately, how viciously ungrateful and self-entitled public can be. Some people hold illusion that all those tasks are relatively easy and simple to do. If only it were true...
I hope I got your post totaly wrong.
Are you telling me here that who ever can code can work with you and do what he will here?
So we have problem here, obvious to me is that persons who can code don't have ability to make this game fun and balance to majority.
I'm sorry to say that but it is truth.
Soo let me be more clear here, this geme don't need new coder this game need
someone like general menager. Someone with clear vision where this game should go and I think we have that man in Jack_Handerson.
Lords will rule their land as they see fit, and the serfs shall merely beg.
General managers don't really work well within development, you may not do code yourself but at very least you need to understand it, not on the surface but having good in-depth understanding; you need to be able to read it yourself, to understand technical limits being there, have a good grasp at how game works technically, how entries are connected between each other, now they are related, so on and so forth. I'll remind you that we're working with a closed source engine with no documentation on it whatsoever (what parts known and documented were collected people poking at prodding at it and then figuring out what does what and how), that has a lot of weird things in there, a lot of things hardcoded and no way around that. You gotta know a good deal of that if you want to do it right. Opinions and suggestions alone don't make that happen, and that's the truth of it. If Jack can learn all that, willing to do so and stick to it and spend considerable amount of time on implementing the stuff - then it's one thing. General-purpose rallying speeches don't make it happen either, and that's also the truth of it.
(01-27-2014, 11:10 AM)Treewyrm Wrote: General managers don't really work well within development, you may not do code yourself but at very least you need to understand it, not on the surface but having good in-depth understanding; you need to be able to read it yourself, to understand technical limits being there, have a good grasp at how game works technically, how entries are connected between each other, now they are related, so on and so forth. I'll remind you that we're working with a closed source engine that has a lot of weird things in there, a lot of things hardcoded and no way around that. You gotta know a good deal of that if you want to do it right. Opinions and suggestions alone don't make that happen, and that's the truth of it. If Jack can learn all that, willing to do so and stick to it and spend considerable amount of time on implementing the stuff - then it's one thing. General-purpose rallying speeches don't make it happen either, and that's also the truth of it.
Well you my know better than me but let me tell simple RL case here.
We all know that doctors work in hospitals, but still why do they need GM to run it?
He don't need to know how operation is made but he still runs the hospital.
Perhaps this game need more coders too, but still we need person like Jack for sure too.
Lords will rule their land as they see fit, and the serfs shall merely beg.
Running hospitals and game development, apples and oranges. What is it with bad analogies lately. Game development companies have specialized managers who are intricately familiar with the subject and experts within their field. Project managers too have to know how things are run in order to arrange workload across teams in such way they don't step on each other toe and work as a one whole team. If you don't know how each group works then you can't manage them efficiently and that's a recipe for a disaster, unmet deadlines, frustrated developers leaving company in droves. A lead programmer may not necessarily do as much code as others in the team but it's his job to maintain direction of the engine development, create solid software architecture, integration with middleware, various services and internal infrastructure supporting that codebase and assets made by other teams (scenes, scripts, models, textures, sounds and music, texts and so on). It is not as complex here though, but nonetheless you gotta have a good grasp at how things work if you want to be involved in making them. I think that's a fair assessment of a requirement to accomplish any complex work.
Jack continues to provide suggestions and feedback as he does, as everyone else is free to do so. I think devs do take into consideration some of his weighted and constructive suggestions, just not all of them are technically feasible and some might be outright impossible to implement. If Jack wants to spend time on implementing stuff - he's free to learn, to contribute, to be a dev. And what's your role in all this? Are you helping him to learn all that?
(01-27-2014, 11:51 AM)Treewyrm Wrote: Jack continues to provide suggestions and feedback as he does, as everyone else is free to do so. I think devs do take into consideration some of his weighted and constructive suggestions, just not all of them are technically feasible and some might be outright impossible to implement. If Jack wants to spend time on implementing stuff - he's free to learn, to contribute, to be a dev. And what's your role in all this? Are you helping him to learn all that?
I did say you know better than me.
As for my role, I think you would die crying before I can learn something about coding. Soo perhaps now and than some suggestion from me...
Ah and I don't know Jack in RL, but he have my respect and I do agree with 80% of his suggetion.
Also I like his manners in game and on forum.
Lords will rule their land as they see fit, and the serfs shall merely beg.
a general manager is - and would be a great addition to aid in consistency & coherency of the mod, efficiency of developement and work and pretty much all the good things that come with it.
also - no... i do not think a general manager necessarily needs to actually "know" what each task takes - BUT he needs to listen to those who do; especially in terms of can or cannot do.
now, what would happen if the dev team was led by someone with organization skills, administration skills, managing skills? - it would run MUCH better - lets not have any doubt about that.
but whats the flipside of it? - the dev work turns into a job. not a RL job as such... but it gets much closer to a job - or a really really serious hobby.
in order to have order and efficiency, you need scheduling, timetables and deadlines. those are all pretty neat things, but they cause pressure on the people working on it.
a good idea for - lets say.. a semi casual dev team would be like that:
- full transparency, no more lead dev or person does a walkthrough - every idea MUST be presented to the team in its utmost entirety ( which does not mean it needs to be fully discussed, but it means that the entire plan needs to be layed out for those who care to inspect it )
- weekly or at least bi-weekly meetings via skype with ALL devs. - each dev getting at least 10 minutes to say what they HAVE been doing and what they plan to do in the next days
if you fulfil the above, you can also create some ETA, cause you ll just know about the progress.
but even those 2 requirements fail. mostly the 2nd one - you just won t get the entire team to show up at a scheduled time - and what will you do when someone fails to show up repeatedly ..... kick him? - and then what...
i think a general idea on how to get your "pumpkin coloured name tag" is to simply contact one of the other yellowish names on the forum, tell them that you want to assist - and get into the channels.
there are and have been devs that have little to no skills in terms of doing stuff, but still contribute by providing their own pov to a subject matter.
edit: so if jack wants to participate or anyone else - contact the yellow guys. there are not many devs around atm, - also cause disco has turned more into a coding mod than a cosmetics pack. - its more numbers now. if you are not approved for dev work - you should simply ask for an explanation.
in the recent past ppl were put on a kind of trial phase... not to test them, but to see how they work with the others.
?
![[Image: just_a_signature_by_sjrarj-d63yjsx.png]](https://img00.deviantart.net/ca73/i/2013/123/e/a/just_a_signature_by_sjrarj-d63yjsx.png)