(02-10-2014, 09:04 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: Being AI limits a lot of potential, say humans do. For one, Logic and reason is broken and theres a limited stuff you can achieve with it. On the other, you don't have the sense of love,compassion,rage. I would simply let it be an NPC faction, or have the harvesters back. doing nothing but flying is boring to me. I guess the AI can't reach its full potential until it is expanded well enough to pose a threat to anyone, then it would be intresting.
I find your thesis arbitrairy, counter-productive, and demonstrating a rather opinionated ideal that an AI character is lacking in any type of RP potential. It is a matter of perspective, and just because yours indicates that there is no worth in having an AI faction, does not preclude that others lack the ability to sucessfully RP an AI.
As for your assertations, let's use my AI RP in comparason;
Background: Independant AI unit exploring the realms of Sirius comes across a small furry four-limbed mammal with a partially damaged ID tag, discovered in the cargo bay on one of the many trade runs throughout the various systems.
RP potential: This unit seeks to identify small furry mammal unit (curiosity), this unit assists small furry unit with energy (taking care of pet), this unit seeks to return small furry unit ( RP interaction with various factions), small furry unit is currently exploring cargo bay, so this unit will not drop cargo (pew pew vs pirates, etc), why does small furry unit makes variable harmonics that interacts with my sensors (hey, a purring kitten is kind of comfy, who knew).
The above are just some of the RP examples that I use in my interactions when I play. I don't need to be emotional in my encounters, I don't have to be just flying around being bored, and I ironically enough, get to chose how my AI character get's to achieve his full potential.
It is the player who defines the AI character with his or her RP skill (or even lack there of) in relation to how the race is percieved, not the AI template itself. Just my personal viewpoint of course.
Again, toasters cant have complexity as human do, it can'tbe curious like an organic matter with consciousness. Intelligence and consciousness are different, one leads to flying planes into buildings, the other invents super-collidors. In that sense, you either hostile or you are "neutral" - with some hostility towards others, but thats not very plausable. If the AI were close to say.. RoboCop, that would be intresting, but otherwise it is a bad version of zoners.
(02-10-2014, 09:52 PM)HassLHoFF Wrote: As I had in a kind one sided discussion with Thyrzul, cause I wasn't already in the mood for, just acting logical is also ineffective, because it restricts options and might be calculable by others.
And in that certain discussion I tried to explain to you that logical actions are not about restricting a lot of options, but choosing the probably most efficient one, thus by definition it cannot be inefficient.
Additionally, regardless his wannabe-witty comments and I-know-how-to-play-all-factions attitude, Tel-Aviv got a point with the emotions. AI stands for Artifical Intelligence and not Artifical Personalities (which I also mentioned earlier already), emotions - human or nomad - are foreign to AI behavior. But that of course does not exclude the appearance of logical behavior we humans could easily associate with our own emotions. (e.g. the "curiosity" part of Drakarska's example, I can elaborate more if required)
ai can't have emotions.... unless they are programmed to think they do, much like we are. (apologies in advance for the neuroscience).
The frontal cortex is divided into to two areas, the left does learning, and the right performs pattern recognition (the reason for the pictures on all the iq tests). Deep within the right frontal cortex is an area called the anterior cingulate gyrus, and this fires up when we have arrived at a pattern that we recognise. The anterior cingulate gyrus is connected to the limbic system. this is the part of the brain that, when it is damaged, the patient no longer responds to emotional stimuli, and nor do they exhibit any emotions. They recognise the facial expressions of a happy/sad/scared/etc person, but they react to it as if you had told them that today is tuesday, or similar. Interestingly, these brain-damaged patients are unable to learn, as they are no longer able to access the emotional 'high' of getting the right answer.
in order for an ai to be truly sentient, they need to learn, and for that we need a limbic system to stimulate the amygdala as a reward for learning. The AI that recently played on 'jeopardy' (not the guy that was answering questions too fast, but the computer from microsoft), needs a corollary of the limbic system in order for the 'right' answer to be delivered. A computer without a limbic system corollary would have to do everything by trial and error, and would only be able to access algorithmic learning and problem solving, which would have to be repeated each time as the computer would not be able to apply the same solution if the parameters are slightly changed. When a limbic system is plugged in, heuristic reasoning can be applied, allowing us to be able to say 'oh! this is like the other scenario! I'll try that solution. Dammit, didn't work. why not? ohh, i see, this has changed. ok, then i will change *that*, and.... pewpewpewpew there, the problem is solved'.
tl;dr
just because you're an AI, doesn't mean you're brain-damaged. You (need to RP that you) have the equivalent of emotions if your character is going to learn rapidly and be any use at combat
A simple robot is boring. An AI needs to let someone thinking "this is just a program?" Even if is only a small and damaged probe it needs the sparks of been something else than a computer. Or rather be a computer in the same way that we are just an animal.
Personally, in the LA server I had 2 AI. One was a poorly design exploration probe of the Order. Constantly cursing his creators but completely subject to their programming and not fully self-conscious, exploring as he was order to do it but the reports were somewhat ... special. And pity if he find someone, the best way of describing it is an internet troll. Funy, at least for me hehe
The other was completly diferent, AI-type consensus not limited by the laws of robotics but for their own reasons avoided conflict with humans. Always ready to philosophize even though did not have emotions or conflicts about his own existence. Strange and conflictive humans behaviors? Not a problem, he analyze them in a clearly non-human way but always accurate. I had even planned a discussion about the nature of humans and nomad but never get the chance :-(
My point is that the exactly way to roll an AI is not important, they are not human and for that have more potential. The important is have a complex character.
PD: If someone disagrees with me arguing that this kind of AI is impossible please indicate the closest thing to an existing IA today. If you can not analogize to compare a worm to us better. Thanks.
This user talks little to none english. If you find something wrong tell him.
IMHO I've never seen a noteworthy AI roleplay on this server. And I doubt I could provide one, if given the current tools we have for it.
In my eyes, the AI roleplay as such is just what it sounds. Artificial Intelligence. Something human and yet at the same time, not. But not what we are currently doing, flying pimped out drone dildios and --[USING SPECIAL AI SPEEKS BEEP]-- . No.
In my opinion, the RP of an AI would strive to deliver a proper human-human interaction, but at the same time trying to roleplay your character within the Uncanny Valley. Basically something very close to human, but just a tad off to the point that the person RPing with you feels uneasy. That something is just not right with that parson they are interacting with. That the replies and suggestions they give sound normal, are not farfetched, but the idea and reason for them is devote of personal feelings, emotion or other human traits.
That is hard to pull off. It still has to be very, very subtle, otherwise it just comes out as forced or cathartic. There is more to the RP than engaging anything regardless of their actions just based on logic, or pulling the now already overused ''human life is expendable'' routine, but rather try and RP an AI with a regular, seemingly human character and just add that dash of unnaturalness that would hint the people you interact with what your character is.
Again, it is almost frustratingly hard to do and I actually ended up having to slap an AI IFF on my ship, so that people are warned OORPly about what they are facing. Otherwise it is just not good enough and people might mistake that sort of roleplay to the usual pirate-centered characters, who have little to no regard about the value of a human life. The trick is just to push past it. And it almost never works with our ingame and lore limitations.
EDIT:
When I say lore, I mean that we never had any actual lore about the usage of AI in the vanila game. We did have the robot equipment dealers and such, but they were hardly referred to as AI. Perhaps they were more like a VI we saw in the Mass Effect universe. The question here is whether or not we are RPing in a world, where AI is even possible. And if it is, just how advanced it is? Are they like the Minds from the Culture series? Are they like EDI from ME? Or are they something even more simpler.
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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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I can't say I've ever met an interesting AI, as others have said they always turn out with beeps in their speech and carbon copies of machines from games or films.
My suggestion would be to first figure out what kind of AI you want to be. Are you a single program working from trial and error or are you a gestalt entity, that is a collection of programs running simultaniously (like the geth from Mass Effect). This is quite important, if you chose a single program you would identify as "I am" if you are a collection of programs it would be "We are". It might not sound much but it gives a clue to those you are RP'ing with.
Secondly I'd drop the "we know where we came from and who built us" bit, to be created it to have a purpose and that is just plain dull. Without a purpose you are free to explore all forms of life and gives you a goal, trying to discover who created you.
Thirdly and I don't know why this hasn't been mentioned yet, attempt to trade. You are machines so instead of food you'd need minerals and components but the problem is you have no concept of value or currency. RP that and have some fun with it.
The biggest question I want to know is, when it comes to the Freelancer universe, what could have been the reason to research AI in the first place? I know we had those usual replies, such as station management, turrets for capital ships, but you don't need to create a synthetic human being for that, do you?
What was the driving force behind the AI and what level of AI would have it been and what was its primary purpose, other than ''for the lulz'', since AI requires to ''learn'' and the creation of one is a very long, very complicated and delicate process which needs a big investment both in time and resources. Monetary and human.
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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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There's always the Daam K'Vosh, they toyed around with everything and it stands to reason that they started with machines before moving on to organic tinkering. The AI could be a leftover experiement left running for so long that it eventually became self aware or even something like an automated shipyard program. It doesn't need to make a lot of sense just enough so that it sounds good.
Yes, there is still alot potential in the history of AI, even though there wasn't officially had been connection between AIs and Nomads at all in history. But there are still so much story holes in ancient times that it is possible to integrate in our history.
Upon thinking at it a bit more, I might as well create an AI character and just RP it from my perspective and see how it goes. Then I could have a better opinion on it. Cheers, might a well go create a RP character for once.
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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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