The Almighty Gallia

[Markus_Janus]

Not really, Kusari made points of embargoes in poorly laid out RP with inadequate evidence to prove it. Yet you still want to insinuate a war. We don't want it, but you're going to make sure you let us know that's what you want. Trying to cut Liberty's fuel line, bringing in Gallia to Kusari who is in open conflict with both Bretonia and Liberty. You can try sugar coating it saying 'Oh, we don't want war. We're just being pricks because that's our RP'

You're vying for a war, stop trying to beat around the bush.

Oh I am not trying to beat around any bush, Liberty violated Kusari space, Kusari put an embargo on Liberty, Liberty cut support for trade lane/ gate network, Kusari turned to Gallia to see the price of removing Liberty from said network.
While you can place all the blame on Kusari, it only shows your ability to remove Liberty’s responsibility from the equation.

This little game of yours insinuates that a large Gallic fleet visits your capital. You say in here Liberty may want to get involved. "Liberty lawful playerbase is free to participate, if their respective official factions decide to. In that case, please contact KNF HC to describe what your intentions would be so that we can arrange things." What exactly do you expect Liberty lawfuls to do with our enemy? Come along and shake hands with the enemy? No, what you're doing is baiting Liberty into trying to do something to stop it. So this simply leaves two paths with same destination. One gets there quicker than the other.

If you feel that is the position you are in then by all means declare war on Kusari and start your three way battle.
A discussion can easily be had between Liberty, Kusari or Gallia without shots being fired.
I just don’t want to hear the term baiting when you are being offered an opportunity to be involved, if you don’t want to then don’t it is not a big deal really, remember that a Liberty faction decided to cut the support for the gate/lane network that set up this event, that was your idea and we are following your course of action as it makes sense to us.

Those being Liberty tries to stop it: Kusari gets PMS over it and war happens quickly

Liberty ignores it: Kusari gets to form an alliance upon which Kusari opens doors to Gallia to attack Liberty, either through warfare ormore imposed embargoes baiting us to war.

Again a possibility, not the only ones I can think of, but that is another matter

Liberty have disproven all your accusations and yet Kusari still try to push that they're right despite the fact that Liberty accepted responisibility for an indies action, and you had one screen of LSF in Kyushu. You implied an embargo over insignificant actions of those not directly involved.

And Liberty has been doing what it does best in regards to diplomacy, hey I like your approach myself.

The way you're going, there is only one path and that one path is not good for Liberty. And you know this and don't give a damn.

Then think of another path, it is your RP that you are responsible for not ours.
Just think of the position you are in, the options you have available and what you would do in the place of the government.
Then you will have your answer.

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Samura Omotai Zaibatsu.

[Markus_Janus]

The way it was worded implied threat, though I can tell you the [LN] is certainly planning on attending. Any OORP views I have towards anything favor both mod progression and at the very least an interesting outcome for both sides. Not attending would be detrimental and hypocritical, and all I'm asking in this thread is that the interests of all parties be considered OORPly.

In short, Liberty getting hit from three sides = little room for story progression, not very interesting.

Allegiances shifting = Lots of new opportunities for RP and progression.

I can certainly agree with where you are coming from Durandal and support your views.
Not everything in Sirius has to be ally/war, there is lots of room in between.

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Samura Omotai Zaibatsu.

[Rodent]

Amusingly enough, The Gallic Government really has no plans to drag Kusari into this war, but they're certainly interested in economically strangling Liberty, which is arguably the more deadly form of warfare that can be practiced against a house built on trade. If Kusari attacked Liberty, they'd open another front and keep the house busy, yes...but would be unlikely to make any headway. Gallia realises that the main punching power lies with them on this one.

As Durandal's said, there's plenty of room for grey allegiances and further involvement of small factions in the brewing larger conflict, and is something I invite. Involving small scale factions like the Vagrant Raiders was something I was interested in, but the general indifference of their leadership towards anything Gallic is quite frankly, a shame. This same attitude extends to a lot of people. Sure you don't agree with the way the storyline went, and maybe it was badly executed. Regardless, the ultimate onus for telling a story lies with the storyteller, in this case the devs...and things are unlikely to change overnight at this stage. I didn't want Ned Stark to die either, but GRRM doesn't listen to me.

But yeah, there's room for alliances to be built. Liberty is likely to fish for new trading markets in unconventional places now that it's tradtitional markets are shutting down, leading to combinations you wouldn't expect. That'd be the roleplay response. Or interfere with it's enemies internally, which is the domain of it's intelligence services. Plenty of options, really...if you put your mind to it and attempt a constructive mindset rather than a negative one.

As I perceive it, Gallia is not scheduled for a final victory, but things might get really close for Space America for the first time in forever, which is something that previous [LN] leaders and myself were looking forward to. Liberty's never been really under pressure, and it's time to tell a new story. You can either join in, or not join in. It's completely up to you. My skype's open for a civil discussion on the topic.

[Kazinsal]

Involving small scale factions like the Vagrant Raiders was something I was interested in, but the general indifference of their leadership towards anything Gallic is quite frankly, a shame.

Indeed, it's a shame the counter-royalist factions are dead and the shipping factions are never in the only part of our ZOI they can be in (Taus) due to the direct Gallia-Kusari connection, and that the only possible interaction we can have with royalist forces is "you die now sirian/frog scum" in front of Freeport 4.

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Retired, permanently.

[Thexare]

What we mean to convey is that our ID literally keeps us from doing most of what we want (Edit to add: as it relates to Gallia.)

Personally, I'd be up for arranging something, but the current map arrangement just doesn't work well for it with our ID, and I'm not sure what the process is for adjusting our ZoI exactly.

[McNeo]

I just wish people making these decisions knew their economics and military strategy. It seems to me that knowledge on these subjects is sorely lacking when making political decisions about inter-house relations - allowed only because there are no immediate ways to introduce severe consequences into the mod, a general reluctance to do so in order to keep everybody happy enough and preserve the playerbase, and the susceptibility of devs and admins to copious amounts of whining - see Westfalen. A particular example lies in economic consequences as any actions affecting the related economies cannot be simulated because there is no real economy of which to speak. You can blockade - if the people you blockade decide that it's ridiculous, it can be ignored. Nothing happens. Boring, stupid and counter-intuitive.

For example, there is no reason militarily why Gallia wouldn't want to open up a new front with Liberty from Kusari. Even if Kusari makes no headway or even loses ground, Gallia doesn't need to commit any resources there - they don't care about Kusari, at least I wouldn't if I were you. All you need is for Liberty to divert forces away from its main fight with you, and you'll have increased your force concentration advantage on the main front. Where does Liberty get its supplies from then?

The point of a multi-front war is not that it's inherently more difficult to conduct than a single-front war. Even if you assume that the balance of power on each front is equal, the difficulty for the defender is how can organise their respective defenses, and the distance it takes to redeploy their forces from one side to the other in order to conduct both offensive and defensive actions. Compared to this, if each front controlled by the attackers is conducted by a seperate nation, the distance they need to redeploy to meet these challenges is the length of their front line, not the distance between one front line and the other. Militarily speaking, there's no reason for Gallia not to turn the screw on Liberty as much as possible in this respect.

A new story would be great if the historical premise set by all the major players weren't ridiculous in the extreme. The above scenario is itself ridiculous because Rheinland should never have been in a lore position to challenge any other house, let alone Liberty, and instead should've probably broken up into individual system states reminiscent of the period preceding the unification of Germany, due to falling tax revenues, an inability to fund its navy and police force, and relentless piracy from the Red Hessians, Corsairs and Unioners. The reason they were in a lore position to do so is because the RM RPed and PvPed in a way that presented them as a strong, disciplined, well-funded and elite force (the RM of 4.80-4.83 was as strong as they came ingame) - which is essentially the polar opposite of what the vanilla lore says they were. As people get used to seeing this ingame and integrate these ideas into their own understanding of an area, it pervades the playerbase until such a lie is accepted as a general truth and thus, gets written into the lore.

Kusari, on the other hand, has just been managed poorly. Economies as integrated as those of Sirius, after hundreds of years of heavily developed transport links which almost broke the bank of all three houses outside Liberty, do not suffer small plateaus in their economic performance if they blockade one another. The interhouse wars made very little sense from the beginning, but further blockades are only possible on discovery because people do not appreciate the significance of those actions economically, militarily, diplomatically and socially, to their own houses as well as their enemy's. If you think that you can somehow engineer yourself away from these consequences, were large powerblocs to cease trading with each other, you would scarcely be able to imagine how wrong you would be. And yet, it happens, because simulated economies and societies don't exist here. That, and the storytelling precedent set by Igiss was incredibly dire.

[Pancakes]

People keep forgetting that the embargo is mainly about war materials, and selected few fuel materials, and not a whole list of commodities.

There's also the fact that the embargo doesn't prohibit from Kusari corps to completely go into Liberty and the vice-versa, it just doesn't allow these certain commodities to pass via Kepler/Galileo to Liberty. inRP, the fuel trade has been redirected to Tau-29->Baffin->Coronado->Cortez->Liberty. Yes, it increases the fuel prices, but it doesn't even remotely meaning that Liberty is completely denied from it.

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

[Yaoquizque]

It was very heavily implied in the Kusari summit thread that you would be going to war with Liberty. I don't mind this, conflict is good, and mod progression is even better.

But I think the fact that Rheinland is still shooting us even after we dragged that chunk of their base to New Hampshire and made them burn their own jumpgates is just a little unusual, and wish they'd just let the whole conflict rest for the sake of keeping the mod interesting. (Unless you think having a house get totally obliterated from three sides is interesting.)

If it comes down to it we could always just escape through Alaska and become Liberty in Exile or something, but I don't think that's better for anybody.

As stated by Jason. I wrote this to give an opportunity for others to join. It is not required for Liberty to reacts. The wiser for them would actually not to. Kusari doesn't wish to start a war. Kusari only will if Liberty does something stupid.

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Not really, Kusari made points of embargoes in poorly laid out RP with inadequate evidence to prove it. Yet you still want to insinuate a war. We don't want it, but you're going to make sure you let us know that's what you want. Trying to cut Liberty's fuel line, bringing in Gallia to Kusari who is in open conflict with both Bretonia and Liberty. You can try sugar coating it saying 'Oh, we don't want war. We're just being pricks because that's our RP'

You're vying for a war, stop trying to beat around the bush.

That is your opinion. Not an objective fact. You dislike what we do because it goes against your interests. Yet you are so keen to accuse people of bias and others skype friends conspiracies.

You shouldn't be judging others according to yourself, expecting them to have the same flaws as you. We are all different.

What's funny is all we wanted was Liberty government to apologize. You ignored us during three weeks. The embargo was put in place to get your attention. Yet you didn't feel like apologizing, again. Instead, you mostly ignored the evidences given to you.

Please read back the thread from the very beginning. And try to keep an open mind while doing so. You will then maybe notice we gave you a way out of this. Many times.

My opinion is Kusari gov would feel insulted by Liberty's way to deal with this issue. It was role-played this way.

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This little game of yours insinuates that a large Gallic fleet visits your capital. You say in here Liberty may want to get involved. "Liberty lawful playerbase is free to participate, if their respective official factions decide to. In that case, please contact KNF HC to describe what your intentions would be so that we can arrange things." What exactly do you expect Liberty lawfuls to do with our enemy? Come along and shake hands with the enemy? No, what you're doing is baiting Liberty into trying to do something to stop it. So this simply leaves two paths with same destination. One gets there quicker than the other.

Those being Liberty tries to stop it: Kusari gets PMS over it and war happens quickly

Liberty ignores it: Kusari gets to form an alliance upon which Kusari opens doors to Gallia to attack Liberty, either through warfare ormore imposed embargoes baiting us to war.

Again, you assert your subjective opinion as an objective fact. I wrote the event draft. You certainly know better than I what i had in mind when i wrote it, hmm?

For one, I'm not for a war with Liberty. As I see it, Kusari isn't ready for another war. Its Navy is still recovering.
As stated above, I wrote this as a reminder the door was open for factions to participate to this. If Liberty decides not to participate, it's fine.

Your opinion is we all want to raid your precious pixels made kingdom with our Chimaeras. That is your opinion, not objective reality.

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Liberty have disproven all your accusations and yet Kusari still try to push that they're right despite the fact that Liberty accepted responisibility for an indies action, and you had one screen of LSF in Kyushu. You implied an embargo over insignificant actions of those not directly involved.

The way you're going, there is only one path and that one path is not good for Liberty. And you know this and don't give a damn.

[LN] and =LSF= deciding to lolaround in Kusari isn't 'insignificant'. Yet again, all we wanted was an apology. It did escalate because you let it do so.

Did you even try to talk to Kusari player-base before deciding we 'don't give a damn?'
Sadly, your abrasive behaviour isn't exactly giving me any incentive to collaborate with you.

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[Enkidu]

*Witheringly*


"Why don't we settle this (no doubt) estimable discussion about why conversing with other human beings on Skype is necessarily a meta-action, and just play the game?"

"Rp over infinite, raging discussion threads, people. Take the Gallia stick out of your arses and play with it properly."

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THE SYNDIC LEAGUES
(A co-operative of Rheinland's Shipping Unions, retired from a life of piracy.)

Information | Recruitment | Message Dump |
Feedback | Diplomatic channel

(Links pending redevelopment).

[McNeo]

People keep forgetting that the embargo is mainly about war materials, and selected few fuel materials, and not a whole list of commodities.

There's also the fact that the embargo doesn't prohibit from Kusari corps to completely go into Liberty and the vice-versa, it just doesn't allow these certain commodities to pass via Kepler/Galileo to Liberty. inRP, the fuel trade has been redirected to Tau-29->Baffin->Coronado->Cortez->Liberty. Yes, it increases the fuel prices, but it doesn't even remotely meaning that Liberty is completely denied from it.

Totally disregarding the impact of capital flows, confidence in markets and in the security of investments and the social impact of rising costs of certain commodities.

First two see both economies grind to a halt in a heavily integrated trade system. People act to protect the value of their investments, if that means taking their money out of the system, that's what they do. Given that Liberty is the most obvious source of financial services, you can imagine the consequences if people lose confidence in their overseas (so to speak...) investments. This happens already without embargoes, just as a consequence of the free-market capitalist economic model, so they can only be detrimental in terms of economic growth.

Third and fourth work to decrease disposable income, reducing consumption-led economic activity and therefore severely depress the quality of life. A static or slightly shrinking wealth level causes enough social problems already, a severely depressed one equals massive social upheaval the kind you only see in movies, because only movies have plotlines involving such catastrophes.

Again, economics. Maybe dabble a bit of finance and banking in there. Use a bit of imagination to ponder the consequences of great powerblocs trying to economically strangle each other after a protracted period of economic integration. Pay special attention to comparative advantage theory, which gives you a maximum magnitude projection of possible economic shrinkage if you assume full integration becoming full isolation. No economies are either fully integrated or fully isolated, but you should get the idea from the percentages involved from even simple examples.

[LN] and =LSF= deciding to lolaround in Kusari isn't 'insignificant'. Yet again, all we wanted was an apology. It did escalate because you let it do so.

Did you even try to talk to Kusari player-base before deciding we 'don't give a damn?'
Sadly, your abrasive behaviour isn't exactly giving me any incentive to collaborate with you.

Funny you should say that, since the proof you have of it boils down to "I saw it with my own eyes". I think Kusari's behaviour has been pretty lolworthy itself.

I got 2 years worth of h-fuel and war materials right here. Should remind you of the kind of behaviour that some of us expect from Kusari.