Quote:Aside from established RP which they'd like to continue, zoners like their zoner caps precisely due to their unique appeal of being able to be in a cap and all over the universe, without getting shot at by everyone else nor breaking server rules, among other things.
There it is. You want your big toy to show off and do....nothing. Fact is you don't need the biggest BS in the game to fly around the universe and be neutral with. There have been plenty of other good points made about how/why Zoners couldn't support, maintain, or even need large caps, so I'm not going to repeat them. At this point, the die-hards will defend their Nephs and Aquillons to the end.
Quote: highland, you prolly don't remember having to mash the mouse button trying to get connected to the server for '85.
I first started playing the game back when it was .85, albeit on a different server than this one. Good times, indeed. But Zoners and their extensive yet useless capship line were just as annoying then as now.
Quote:Atleast,one player can see it from the general game/activity/fun/RL point of view that I have been raged over for speaking my mind out all this time.Forgive the lore/RP/whatever that is Disco for a moment.Think it as just another game,one which is fun to play.And you cant decide what roles the people here want to take.Its dictatorship then.Its their will to choose a role and defend it from the anarchy of the community,that is so.
Nobody is forcing anybody to play as a Zoner...or any other faction, for that matter. But rules are there to help KEEP a game fun and prevent abuse. Try playing on a server with too loose rules or no rules at all...and see how much fun you're having there. If the game isn't that fun for you...then play something else. I dunno what else to tell you.
Alright then, if no one from developers don't take words everything related about Zoners from players seriously, it's official statement of the Phoenix.
First of all, we're thankful Gytrash efforts in posting this thread, collect this puzzle of messages, which actually giving a full image to what's going on for general community.
For the years Zoner players used their own ships, developing their own Role Play, putting their effort into server just because they enjoy it. But what we have now?
Developers(I hope at last part of them) decided for themselves what's good or bad of faction, even not considering to ask Zoner players what they think or at last official factions(for what purpose we are existing then?). Ruin their RP, thus ruin their fun and Zoner activity in general.
Even with such resistance of all Zoners players, they faced us behind the fact - you going to be changed into trade faction with trade restriction and no real routes, because indies screwed few times. Which actually false - latest Zoner drama caused NOT Zoner capital ships, but POBs with no regulations, which Zoner official factions tried to stop, by filling their Faction Right 5. But, Instead to listen to community and switch Zoner caps into SRPs/official faction regulation, they decide for themselves to took off what we owned for years.
As we found it as absolutely unfair for everyone, except of devs, which thinks its for better of this server and mod itself. We call administration team, developers and official factions to sit down at round table and found solution.
Quote:Aside from established RP which they'd like to continue, zoners like their zoner caps precisely due to their unique appeal of being able to be in a cap and all over the universe, without getting shot at by everyone else nor breaking server rules, among other things.
There it is. You want your big toy to show off and do....nothing. Fact is you don't need the biggest BS in the game to fly around the universe and be neutral with. There have been plenty of other good points made about how/why Zoners couldn't support, maintain, or even need large caps, so I'm not going to repeat them. At this point, the die-hards will defend their Nephs and Aquillons to the end.
There is nothing reprehensible about that, especially in a game where your main purpose is to play with a complex digital version of a toy.
Showing off a big toy is not wrong. To the contrary, to stop others from having fun with their digital ships is wrong especially when considering the core of any game is to have fun, and it's easier for you to ignore zoners and their "big, useless shipline" rather than to turn it into something 90% of the current zoner playerbase would not enjoy.
Sure, the vanilla zoners may have had problems supporting and maintaining the current cap ship line, but neither did the 4.84, 4.85 and the 4.86 zoner cap owners experience the same issue. This, like many of the possibly illogical things happening in discovery is part of the suspension of disbelief required on part of the player so that he doesn't become a fun-killing d*** who wants to destroy other peoples experience due to his personal opinion.
Hell, if logic were to fully prevail then there are a multitude of fun-diminishing changes I'd like to make to the mod, least of which is AI-controlled auto-aim+auto-battle systems for ships, more than 800 years into space age is no reason peeps cannot have a widespread fully functional combat AI installed on every ship, but then that would diminish the gameplay for players who value their PVP skills.
No atmosphere? GTFO.
The propeller is the greatest invention of all time.
Quote: ...This, like many of the possibly illogical things happening in discovery is part of the suspension of disbelief required on part of the player so that he doesn't become a fun-killing d*** who wants to destroy other peoples experience due to his personal opinion.
Well heck, then while we're at it, I want my own extensive capship line for Gateway Shipping, because that would be fun for me and mine, wouldn't it? While we're at it, let's get special caps for GMG, Gaians, Cryer, etc...
If fun trumps all....then let's just screw all the rules and fly whatever ship we want in whatever ID we want, and shoot whoever we want whenever we want, and consequences be darned.
This isn't about killing fun...it's about bringing the Zoner faction and shipline more within the scope of their original intent. I'm not going to answer for why Zoners had ship X back in .84, .85, or whenever, because that wasn't my call...nor would I have chosen what they currently have if it had been mine.
If official Zoners want to hash it out with the devs and admins, I think that's fine. Probably should have been done, anyways. But I'm sick of the sense of entitlement based around half-arsed logic that folks keep using as an excuse to keep the status-quo.
(02-25-2014, 06:51 PM)RedEclipse Wrote: Ruin their RP, thus ruin their fun and Zoner activity in general.
As said before, if the Zoners need battleships to have fun and be active, then I'd say that there is a much different, much bigger problem with the Zoner gameplay in general.
Furthermore, think about the following: If losing the ship is so devastating to your RP, and the ship itself has such a crucial role in it - aswell as the background and origin of it thought through - then you can SRP the Nephilim.
I slowly start to get the feeling that certain people here complain that they suddenly have to put effort for their Nephilim to acquire it and maintain it instead of powertrading billions and buying it from the shipyard.
If the RP of some nephilim-owners here is half as good as they claim it to be, then getting the Nephilim through an SRP should be one of the easiest tasks for you.
Quote:Aside from established RP which they'd like to continue, zoners like their zoner caps precisely due to their unique appeal of being able to be in a cap and all over the universe, without getting shot at by everyone else nor breaking server rules, among other things.
There it is. You want your big toy to show off and do....nothing. Fact is you don't need the biggest BS in the game to fly around the universe and be neutral with. There have been plenty of other good points made about how/why Zoners couldn't support, maintain, or even need large caps, so I'm not going to repeat them. At this point, the die-hards will defend their Nephs and Aquillons to the end.
Quote: highland, you prolly don't remember having to mash the mouse button trying to get connected to the server for '85.
I first started playing the game back when it was .85, albeit on a different server than this one. Good times, indeed. But Zoners and their extensive yet useless capship line were just as annoying then as now.
its not the official factions that are 'annoying' but the indies. if the official factions were annoying, they;d have been bastilled and severely spanked with the banhammer, as has happened to annoying factions in the past. Can't think of any official sanctions. sure, we all lined up to shoot at fp7 (made a change from raiding gamma everyday), but the achilles heel of the zoners is their RP.
what?
the sairs have a unique approach to someone taking a cap into bretonia and shooting up the place. we call them a ship thief, as the caps are for the defence of crete. but the sairs have a homeworld, and thus this kinda makes sense.
the zonerzonerzoners have no home world (gran canaria doesnt count, thats a corsair world thanks ), they are spread out all over the server, and truth be told, get along as well as cats tied into a sinking bag. I could see the zoners coming back stronger from this, but maybe only if they fragmented further, and had each base as their home turf. this is the same as the sairs have done. the benitez (i seem to bethe sole survivor of an apocalypse), the sails and the tbh get along well by joining up with each other when it suits, and sticking to our own kniiting elsewise. i could totally get behind a fragmented zoner faction with tags like (fp1) or (fp4), and their ill-fated caps named (fp7), in memorium, ad salutem, ergo bibendum.
what i just cannot see is why a bhg/core technerf wasnt applied to the faction. deleting the ships is a duckmove, has caused unnecessary grief and butthurt all around.
(02-25-2014, 06:42 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote:
Quote:Atleast,one player can see it from the general game/activity/fun/RL point of view that I have been raged over for speaking my mind out all this time.Forgive the lore/RP/whatever that is Disco for a moment.Think it as just another game,one which is fun to play.And you cant decide what roles the people here want to take.Its dictatorship then.Its their will to choose a role and defend it from the anarchy of the community,that is so.
Nobody is forcing anybody to play as a Zoner...or any other faction, for that matter. But rules are there to help KEEP a game fun and prevent abuse. Try playing on a server with too loose rules or no rules at all...and see how much fun you're having there. If the game isn't that fun for you...then play something else. I dunno what else to tell you.
i am literally -this- close to starting up a 85+ server. will be the 85 map, with a shrunken gallia, and a few extra toys thrown in. Pobs will be present, but only under srp for bases within 20k of the datum plane. i like playing freelancer. i like smuggling a load of artifacts or cardamine into manhatten whilst telling the navy that there's a smuggler in texas/cali. I even used to play SP when i lived in the boondocks and had no internet connection, and that kept me sane whilst i was bedridden with a c6 disc bulge. i've flown with some awesome people, from the judges, to the strontium dogs, to the White Tigers, to the benitez. I even know why Jose Benitez is called 'pineapples', why biskit will never ever say 'yay, rendezvous' again, and why Ronnie Benitez is like a russian submarine.
The only reason I don't leave this server is cos i connect with my friends, and lets be honest here, shoot them.
for the love of all things holy don't take my friends toy's away. there will be nothing but hollow victories, and BOTH shooter and shot will look for a sense of achievement and satisfaction elsewhere. Space engineers anyone?
@highland
in my personal opinon the obsession with "balance" - which a gameplay mechanic, is really fricken stupid, because the argument of gathering a bunch of gbs to gank a marduk can also be applied in any situation where you "simply" gather a bunch of UP ships to gank an OP ship, therefore negating the need to balance their stats.
As for bringing zoners to their original intent, that's simply fanboyism. Unfortunately for you, this game is not about Chris Roberts/Microsoft and their lore, but about the players. While it is used as a foundation, there is no need to obsess over the three lines of text and several lines of stats of vanilla like religious fanatics to the fricken bible. Chris Roberts created zoners, Zoner players expanded upon it to create so much more, and the result despite not being perfectly aligned with vanilla lore, works out for them.
You wanting a capship line for gateway is, also a flawed comparison as firstly gateway has Bretonia authorities who's literal job is to protect interest of bretonian corporations among other things, and if gateway really wanted a capship badly they could SRP a bretBS and it could probably be done with a bit of paperwork. Alas, gateway does not need a capship line since they can rely on the existing house infrastructure of tradelanes and nearby bases to guarantee safety, and besides gateway is a trading faction. Meanwhile zoners are a group of people, kind of like a race or a belief who have no definitive role, thus allowing them to be more than just traders. And, contrary to gateway zoners do not have an existing infrastructure of the houses to rely on, especially in deep space, thus they need to be fully autonomous including in their defensive capabilities.
You can try to compare disco with RL and how people don't need the kind of military might that zoners exhibit, but you'd probably be driving to work in a tank if the crime rate in your city was nearly half as high as Disco's crime rate, never less in the dangerous regions of the unexplored.
(02-25-2014, 07:47 PM)lIceColon Wrote: You can try to compare disco with RL and how people don't need the kind of military might that zoners exhibit, but you'd probably be driving to work in a tank if the crime rate in your city was nearly half as high as Disco's crime rate, never less in the dangerous regions of the unexplored.
I suggest we give missiles to Zoner freighters. They need those to defend themselves, don't they?
While I am not - and never will be - a Zoner player, I think the biggest problem here is that some ships are just going away. While I personally think giving the Zoners a tradeship line and reducing the cap population is, in itself, good, I don't think replacing the two Juggies (or whatever they are, you know - the Persephone and the other) is just a bad call.
My guess? Leave the two alone. Replace the Nephilims with appropriate colony ships, make Aquilons strictly SRP - based, as the "Pride of the Zoners". This leaves us with a fleet of btransports, Q-ships (QQ-ships?) and a few powerful ships with strong RP buildup. I don't say that everyone is happy, but come on!
All of you guys just ranting around, biting each other's feet, pulling legs of the dev team... Why can't you just work on a compromise of sorts? It'd give you a chance to get something done, improve the server and NOT spread hate and flame on the community!
While I never had an issue with this zonerzonerzoner meme (it's all mythical for me), If it's sucha big problem - work it out and don't do things like you just did.
), they are spread out all over the server, and truth be told, get along as well as cats tied into a sinking bag. I could see the zoners coming back stronger from this, but maybe only if they fragmented further, and had each base as their home turf. this is the same as the sairs have done. the benitez (i seem to bethe sole survivor of an apocalypse), the sails and the tbh get along well by joining up with each other when it suits, and sticking to our own kniiting elsewise. i could totally get behind a fragmented zoner faction with tags like (fp1) or (fp4), and their ill-fated caps named (fp7), in memorium, ad salutem, ergo bibendum. 
