Gytrash's rant.

[Gytrash]

EDIT2: You're probably not going to read this, but our intent behind stating "Zoners cannot support battleships" is better to be interpreted as "The people of the Zoner label cannot as a whole support a house-military sized fleet of heavy warships".

In response to this I say as follows.

Have you read anything I have ever said on the topic of this thing ever?

I have been saying that from the start.

Might want to see an optometrist about that one mate.

[Kazinsal]

According to the developer I'm speaking to, you threw him out of the relevant chats because you didn't like the direction of discussion after wasting his time explaining the same situation over and over again. And by god, I trust his word, not because I'm his friend, and not because I'm on the same team and side as him, but because that seems objectively entirely possible seeing the absolute anger and hate you've been flinging at the development team and its members for this decision.

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Retired, permanently.

[Highland Laddie]

Wow...the pontificating going on.

So, your years and years of Zoner RP are now utterly wasted because the devs are just changing your toys a bit? Do you just RP for the stories themselves, or just for the ships?

And now in a final act of desperation to save your toys, you threaten the devs with leaving the server in the hopes that they'll crap their pants, beg you to stay, and keep the status quo.

This is why people hate Zoners. This is precisely why.

[.Gypsy.]

Well, it's come to a pretty pass when people are beginning to become so frustrated as to feel the need to post in this manner.

I can understand it, the way in which the Zoners have been targeted in this "Cap Hunt" seems to have been particularly devisive and I would hope that everyone is alarmed at the way this argument is escalating to the extent where the three Official Zoner camps are fully aligned in their opposition to the Devs plans.

There's a thing! United Zoners! I have never witnessed that in all my years on the Server. Someone needs congratulating for that at the very least, I've never even come close!

Of course, we might have taken a different stance about all of this had all Cap ship use throughout the game been placed under review, but that hasn't been the case and consequently we feel victimized whether or not that is the case in truth.

One of the main problems is that part of the rationale of having Role Play is to be able to influence your Factions destiny, and to this extent I think Disco has a pretty good past history. So it's particularly galling that having done all of that within the spirit of the game and equipment available to us, that a bunch of folk rock up and announce that "Sorry.. We're changing all that, and if ya don't like it, suck it up". Not good enough chaps, really not good enough.

From the TAZ perspective, aside from the actual ships we have on our roster, it's pretty difficult to see what we would do with Baffin in the event that these changes are implemented. Pueblo Bonito is doomed as it currently thrives by the production of the Aquilon and Cap spare parts and so is Shasta as a major supplier of Cap equipment.

This situation has the sense of a complete train crash and I for one don't want to see that happen. Despite all the claims that this change is inevitable and will be implemented whether is agreed with the Official Factions or not, I don't for an instant believe it.

I think it's great that we are are still here talking and it shows a passion by the players in Disco that they are not giving up on this and I am sure there is a way to find an agreed path through the mayhem.

In this respect I would like to see a Mod Dev/Admin/Faction working party set up to sort this mess out.

Frankly, at the moment I'm embarrassed and disappointed for the community as a whole and the way we are presenting ourselves to the outside world over this issue.

Sincerest kudos for this post, I wish I could construct such a great way of wording this...

Frankly, at the moment I'm embarrassed and disappointed for the community as a whole and the way we are presenting ourselves to the outside world over this issue.

I should show you the post I made about this and saved as a draft. I still have the draft but didn't post it as it would probably gotten crapped on and i didnt think it would have made a difference.

According to multiple members of the development and administration teams that I have spoken with, this is already underway and has been for 48 hours.

This is good news whatever the outcome, as it shows how serious they take the issue. I have faith they will fix this mess somehow.

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[Gytrash]

According to the developer I'm speaking to, you threw him out of the relevant chats because you didn't like the direction of discussion after wasting his time explaining the same situation over and over again. And by god, I trust his word, not because I'm his friend, and not because I'm on the same team and side as him, but because that seems objectively entirely possible seeing the absolute anger and hate you've been flinging at the development team and its members for this decision.

That was Max

And he kept saying "I don't decide anything so don't look at me"

And that chat was turning into a bitchfest because of his presence. So I threw him out so that we could focus on the original purpose of the chat.

That and there were no admins in that chat.

[Major_Mayhem]

In this respect I would like to see a Mod Dev/Admin/Faction working party set up to sort this mess out.

According to multiple members of the development and administration teams that I have spoken with, this is already underway and has been for 48 hours.

I have not been contacted, I spoke to Jogin (TAZ) earlier he was neither. Is this the same sort of "contacting faction leaders" like you clamed to have done before this change was published?

Edit: About Max: He was the "sit down and shut up" i was refering to in my first post in this chat.

Edit2: I'm old. I can't keep up with this.

[Kazinsal]

And that chat was turning into a bitchfest because of his presence. So I threw him out so that we could focus on the original purpose of the chat.

I have a very hard time believing this, having read your spontaneous ad hominem rant against the development team here.

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Retired, permanently.

[Gytrash]

And that chat was turning into a bitchfest because of his presence. So I threw him out so that we could focus on the original purpose of the chat.

I have a very hard time believing this, having read your spontaneous ad hominem rant against the development team here.

The chat was originally designed so that we could collaborate on what we knew of Zoner lore and how we could build it to fit with the Zoner faction as it stands.

I made this chat and dragged a bunch of people in before this debacle even started.

Then every single Zoner chat has turned into a "How can we stop this amazingly stupid decision" thing

And I didn't need a sixth chat for that. So I booted him so we could focus on the original purpose of the chat. Although that's all being put on hold until we get this stopped.

Edit: I actually had a separate chat so that we could discuss the way forward with Echo 7-7. We had a Skype call and then he left.

So long story short, we had a chat for that with just Me, the Zoner faction leaders and Echo. He left that one. I had him in the Lore discussion chat to provide a devs opinion, it turned into something else. So I botted him and warned the rest of the chat members to keep it to the specific complaining chats we had.

[Durandal]

Once again, nobody is seeing things from an objective and unbiased point of view. Disappointing because that's the development team's job, but things have a funny way of never changing.

So you've got a server, for a game that came out in 2003, whos population has been on a slow but steady decline.

Is the idea of Zoner caps stupid? Yeah, probably. But what's more stupid is driving away people and activity from the server instead of reaching a more reasonable compromise, such as keeping the ships and their lore as is (with the exception of maybe the Aquilon) but tearing their guns off.

It isn't that hard to pull a lore excuse out of your arse. It isn't impossible to change a population. (Manhattan reads 18 some billion, when I think in vanilla it barely topped 1 billion) It isn't impossible to come up with other explanations like "Zoner ships require smaller crews due to advanced AI technology", so on and so forth.

You've also failed to see the further reaching implications of this decision, as parties both happy and unhappy with it are now calling to make all caps SRP only for their own personal vendettas and agendas. I could write an entire wall of text on how I think Discovery capships are broken, but the minute you start taking things away you're going to see the server population decline. Afterall, there was once a faction called the [HF] who had to fight with the dev/admin team to keep their stuff intact constantly. The [HF] was a faction with 30+ members and 20 days of activity. They don't exist anymore, because the people holding them together (myself, Ench, Denelo, Ryan) got tired of fighting a losing battle for years on end.

It comes down to whether you want to preserve realism or server population, you can't have both. I'm telling you that what you're doing is the wrong decision, unless you're just looking for a spineless way to slowly drive the mod into the ground, in which case you could just announce that you're stopping development and pulling the plug on the server. Or you could do more productive things, like focusing on porting the mod to a more advanced engine, instead of complaining that you lack the manpower and technical skill to do so. Learn.

And before I see the "we don't get paid so suck it up" card played here, numerous people have offered funding and deadlines. The truth is that deep down, you know you really just don't want that responsibility, which definitely makes me wonder why you seem to think you can be responsible for a mod of hundreds of players.

[Kazinsal]

Good luck making a significant change when you're busy alienating the development team instead of actually providing us with appropriate and relevant lore for the Zoners as a faction and their ships.

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Retired, permanently.