Gytrash's rant.

[lIceColon]

The mod that you play for free and no one makes you stay here?

you know the "free" argument is a terrible one to use, because something bad is something bad regardless of the price. There is a difference between being entitled, and just expressing criticism. I think one of the reasons we keep typing our posts is that we actually care about the mod, including the amount of effort inf the form of activity, RP that the players put in, and also since discovery freelancer is kinda unique (at least until sc and the other new multiplayer spaceship games are fully developed and released), so yeah, it's not someone but something that makes us stay here.

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No atmosphere? GTFO.
The propeller is the greatest invention of all time.

[Valrin]

Well yeah we care about the mod, but expressing criticism can be done in a more civil manner, getting mad and saying someone is ruining the mod and all that crap isn't gonna help, if anything it'll just make the people stop doing stuff with the mod and then where will we be?

But that's just my view of this.

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IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I SAID, IT MATTERS WHAT I MEANT!!!!

please go learn to english

[MrWeeks]

Well yeah we care about the mod, but expressing criticism can be done in a more civil manner, getting mad and saying someone is ruining the mod and all that crap isn't gonna help, if anything it'll just make the people stop doing stuff with the mod and then where will we be?

But that's just my view of this.

We have tried to be civil, we have tried to provide alternatives, we have tried a LOT of things to make the developers see differently and well... It just didn't happen, we got shunned and told "Suck it up" so what other alternative do we have?

[Druen78]

What you DIDN'T try was to stop thinking about heavy mortars and battleship Cerbs, and see if you could adapt your RP to the new ship designations. If you really and honestly tried that, you'd see that you RP could easily still stand, because RP always beats game mechanics. You don't need a ship to actually be a battleship, you can RP it as a battleship even if it's a transport. That is, IF the RP is truly your concern, which I highly doubt.

PS: Richard, your signature is hipnotic... O_O

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I don't seed a signature.

[Pancakes]

I simply still fail to see how you can't RP as a colony ship with a huge liner, designed especially for that.

Give me a reason that Zoners should have BATTLESHIPS (as in, with Battleship weaponry) apart from hunting for nomad remains (which isn't even their job, but okay, we have two marvelous factions for that = Core and Order) and for jump trading with a neutral ship.

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

[MrWeeks]

The thing is, transports can not defend bases. It was not me saying that I wanted to RP it as a colony ship, I never did. IMO it was never supposed to ONLY be a colony ship, my whole argument was that IN ADDITION to being a battleship, it was also possible that it could make planetfall and establish a small colony BUT NOT EXPRESSLY designed to do so. If you look at my long post earlier on in this thread you will see how I explain that in greater detail.

[Lythrilux]

The thing is, transports can not defend bases. It was not me saying that I wanted to RP it as a colony ship, I never did. IMO it was never supposed to ONLY be a colony ship, my whole argument was that IN ADDITION to being a battleship, it was also possible that it could make planetfall and establish a small colony BUT NOT EXPRESSLY designed to do so. If you look at my long post earlier on in this thread you will see how I explain that in greater detail.

Bombers and gunboats can be used to defend bases. Hell, even the two cruisers you get to keep can. You do not need battleships to defend everything when there are other options available.

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[MrWeeks]

Bombers and gunboats can be used to defend bases. Hell, even the two cruisers you get to keep can. You do not need battleships to defend everything when there are other options available.

Why were the Zoners given a battleship in the 1st place then?

[Lythrilux]

Bombers and gunboats can be used to defend bases. Hell, even the two cruisers you get to keep can. You do not need battleships to defend everything when there are other options available.

Why were the Zoners given a battleship in the 1st place then?

Because it was a mistake. Zoners were never meant to have militaristic battleships, only things that were relevant to the Zoner RP and lore. The Neph and Aquillion were only added to the zoner shipline because devs though "lol, caps are cool, lets give them to zoners too".

And finally, the devs have come to their senses and are purging the zoner shipline of it's capitals, in favor of more lore relevant transports.

And that still isn't a valid argument as to why zoners can't use bombers and gunboats for defense instead using battleships.

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[Trogdor]

Because it was a mistake. Zoners were never meant to have militaristic battleships, only things that were relevant to the Zoner RP and lore. The Neph and Aquillion were only added to the zoner shipline because devs though "lol, caps are cool, lets give them to zoners too".

And finally, the devs have come to their senses and are purging the zoner shipline of it's capitals, in favor of more lore relevant transports.

And that still isn't a valid argument as to why zoners can't use bombers and gunboats for defense instead using battleships.

It was not a mistake. Their presence is justified by changes in lore. The same changes in lore that made it okay for a half dozen other factions to start building capital ships. Their ability to do it funds the Zoner's ability to do it, because the Zoners bring in the materials.

The problem is that the devs didn't think it through all the way. They didn't finish the job. The faction needs more territory, more stations, more population, and more story written if it's to become the politically significant faction the presence of capital ships implies.

Furthermore, the presence of pirate battleships necessitates them. Regardless of ingame pvp balance, inRP a few gunboats or bombers can't take down a battleship. No one would put the resources into building one if that was the case. If the Zoners weren't capable of deterring the Corsairs and Outcasts from taking their stations with naval force, they would have captured those Freeports long ago.


This whole fiasco boils down to 3 choices that the Dev team and Community are going to have to choose from.

1) Nerf the Zoners into something more closely resembling what they were in vanilla. The Zoners basically become less interesting Junkers, feelings will be hurt, activity will suffer (conflict = activity), and IMO, the entire community will be the poorer for it. But hey, this is what some members of the community want. Apparently forcing the Zoners back into that vanilla mold is worth it.

2) Uplift the Zoners so that they look less like cooperating Freelancers, and more like the Hutt Cartel. Expand their territory, which will undoubtedly bring them into conflict with formerly neutral neighbors, whom may feel threatened/jealous/whatever of their newfound economic and military power. Give them new commodities to haul that establish new connections with underpopulated factions... commodities that will be coveted, reviled, outlawed. Give the Zoners turf to defend and a reason to defend it.

This would be my preferred solution, but I am admittedly biased since my nephilim is my primary character and almost all of my other characters are Zoners, too. But someone has to be their advocate here, keep a cool head, and keep the discussion constructive.

3) Drop the issue and go back to tolerating the imperfect but relatively stable status quo. Nothing gets fixed, but we stave off community armageddon another day.

Those are really the only 3 options. In order to change anything, the community and dev team must decide on exactly what the Zoners are supposed to be. Politically significant proto-nation, or edge-world UPS?


Don't we have enough trading factions, Disco? Isn't option 2 more interesting? Why do people want them go back to what they were before?

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