Vigilante ID

[Pancakes]

As some might notice, and some might not, in the post about the changes to the pirate ID, I made a short verse about the Vigilante ID.

The ID was removed, because in the past each house/faction had its own laws regarding who's lawful and who isn't, so it was troublesome, when lets say, a bunch of Kruger IFF'ed and Vigilante ID'ed ships hunted down IMG ID'ed ships since they were listed unlawful by Kruger, at the time.

However, nowadays, each ID states whether the faction it represents is Lawful, Unlawful or Semi-Lawful. Thus, the vigilante ID can be returned with no fear of abuse.

The ID, as it was, was already terribly restricted. It could land only on a very handful of bases around Sirius and use only civilian tech. Lets say it's returned, only this time without even the ability to land on BHG bases (because lets face it - BHG wouldn't want vigilantes running around stealing their jobs while basing out of their own bases, they'd want said vigilantes as part of the Guild, letting them make a profit on each killing).

So - intake?

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

[Binski]

I never saw one of these, so in all honesty, what were the parameters of the ID? I couldn't see it being anything other than a Pirate ID (the one we had) or a freelancer/bounty hunter ID. I'd want to know what would set it aside from pre-existing ID's (especially Reavers/Mercenary). I suppose it could be used like a privateer ID but it would have to be fixed as either lawful or unlawful and fill the role as either a lawful vigilante or unlawful vigilante.

About a year and a half ago I tried to SRP for what I called a 'Liberty Privateer' ID. The idea at the time was basically to copy the Bretonian one but adapt it for Liberty instead.

So, a lawful Vigilante would be something I'd see as operating outside house space, perhaps in the interests of lawful factions and houses, similar to the BP.

An Unlawful Vigilante could be like an unlawful privateer and consider house organizations hostile... but it seems kind of redundant. The problem is not that people can't find an ID to go hunt LPI anymore, its that they don't always want to do so as a Rogue, Hacker or Outcast. For a vigilante to fill the gap of the old Pirate ID, they'd need to be linked to some kind of unlawful group so they could hunt lawfuls for a reason, in the same way Bret Privateers hunt crown enemies. Otherwise, we're back to a Terrorist ID that basically is a Pirate ID that allows you to engage any lawful ship anywhere.

For those who wish to hunt lawful snubs or larger military ships as independents, you can still do that with a Freelancer ID. I guess a real option would be for people to vest more faith in one. The reason why people don't is that typically a Freelancer can't take offensive action unless they are bounty hunting. I feel most players don't bother because even after registered for a bounty it can feel like you might be rule breaking by engaging first. Freelancers can register for bounties based on their reps, but one thing I have found is that only a few factions still keep up on their bounty boards, and therefor hunting offensively as a Freelancer can still be quite limiting. With other ID's there's no confusion on who, where and when you can openly engage.

This whole problem stems from people not fully utilizing a Freelancer ID and its capabilities. For anyone looking to keep the donut eaters off balance, go Freelancer and register for the Hackers and Rogues. Between the two you're pretty much covered to engage any Liberty lawful combat ships as targets of bounty.

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The Further Exploits of Captain Antares (August 2015) │ (alt) JonasHudson
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[Alestone]

Unforgiven: I think that what you describe is more a combination of a desire to stay on one character and a desire to not be bound into specific factions.

After all, every one of the major polities has the circumstances you speak of, but they are all limited by ZoI. The only advantage I saw in the "Old Pirate" was the lack of political entanglements so that you could wander into different polities when the action was elsewhere.

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Alestone Enterprises

The Power To Get You There!

[Vulkhard Muller]

For those wondering:

Pilot carrying this ID is a Vigilante, who :
Can demand any non-house police or non-house military ships to drop any contraband
Can hunt pirates and terrorists anywhere in Sirius except for the Omicron systems
Cannot use ANY unlawful equipment or weapons (including Nomad weapons)
Cannot ally with anyone except other Vigilantes
Cannot attack any lawful police or lawful military except in self defense
Cannot demand credits
Cannot trade or escort traders
Cannot fulfill bounty contracts
Can only land on Bounty Hunter, Zoner, IMG, Neutral, and Freelancer bases
Allowed ships: Fighters, and Freighters
Carrying unmounted IDs in your ship, as well as not equipping an ID, is a serious crime. Vigilantes are often considered to be unlawful and may be engaged by the lawful house police and house military. Players using the Vigilante ID MUST have a lawful tag/IFF and their equipment and area of operation must also reflect their tag.

[Lythrilux]

That question is would such an idea displace the BHG ID even more? It's already considered less worthwhile than the Freelancer ID.

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[NoMe]

just an idea

How could we make? If sirius needs to protect itself against the great naughty boys, he needs a rather free faction, and interesting for those who has it shall rise. 1 can accost in the loyal bases of any house, 2 can attack the traffickers of organ, the slave drivers, the nomads and the murderers everywhere in sirius. 3 cannot make a commitment against the piracy and the smuggling(contraband) except in the quoted cases higher

[Highland Laddie]

No. You wanna go after unlawfuls/smugglers? Use a police/military/BHG ID.

You just wanna pew lawfuls? Use a terrorist ID.

You wanna pirate? Use a generic pirate ID, or better yet, a House-specific pirate faction ID.

[Pancakes]

For those wondering:

Pilot carrying this ID is a Vigilante, who :
Can demand any non-house police or non-house military ships to drop any contraband
Can hunt pirates and terrorists anywhere in Sirius except for the Omicron systems
Cannot use ANY unlawful equipment or weapons (including Nomad weapons)
Cannot ally with anyone except other Vigilantes
Cannot attack any lawful police or lawful military except in self defense
Cannot demand credits
Cannot trade or escort traders
Cannot fulfill bounty contracts
Can only land on Bounty Hunter, Zoner, IMG, Neutral, and Freelancer bases
Allowed ships: Fighters, and Freighters
Carrying unmounted IDs in your ship, as well as not equipping an ID, is a serious crime. Vigilantes are often considered to be unlawful and may be engaged by the lawful house police and house military. Players using the Vigilante ID MUST have a lawful tag/IFF and their equipment and area of operation must also reflect their tag.

Of course, it wouldn't be exactly like this. And now with the technerf chart the lines about unlawful equipment could be dropped all together and just force vigi ID to solely civilian technology.

Also, the line about contraband should be altered, as contraband is a very subjective term to each house. It could be replaced by the main "unlawful" commodities (Cardamine, etc).

I think Zoners should be removed from the ID landing ability this. This also makes sense since Zoners don't need some crazed-out bastards that basically everyone hates (remember, vigilantes aren't law-biding citizens, they are treated like criminals too, for taking the law to their own hands!) them. Zoners have no need for such hassles.

That question is would such an idea displace the BHG ID even more? It's already considered less worthwhile than the Freelancer ID.

Even when the ID was out there, it was barely used. The only reason it got removed is because it was abused by the old Kruger| faction to kill enemies of Kruger. We are talking about an ID that can barely land anywhere in the game, and everyone hates. Lawfuls can harass you and even detain you until a gank force would be coming and you would have nothing to do. Most people wouldn't bother with it.

Not to mention the fact that vigilantes can only use civilian snub-ships, you can't even compare it to BHG ships. We could even add a line that BHG can "remove" vigilantes, if they wish. They are harming business and everyone wants them gone anyway, no harm done?

No. You wanna go after unlawfuls/smugglers? Use a police/military/BHG ID.

You just wanna pew lawfuls? Use a terrorist ID.

You wanna pirate? Use a generic pirate ID, or better yet, a House-specific pirate faction ID.

Vigilante ID adds a unique aspect to the game. Even when it was considered "broken" it wasn't overused for the simple fact it's so hard to use.

And it can only "use" the first of these stated lines, can't shoot lawfuls or pirate (in fact, it specifically prohibits the two). Not to mention that Terrorist ID isn't even a public one, so you can't compare the two. If you think the ID could be added as an SRP option like the Terrorist ID, please do state so.

[Jack_Henderson]

I like the idea of "vilgilantes" (I loved the Lost Star rp), but reality has proven that it is an ID that is sooo damn easy to exploit (Kruger Vigilante in T23). I do not want to go back there.

Gameplaywise, Vigilantes would take away the jobs (already limited) for mercs/freelancers/BHG. All 3 groups are struggling (euphemism much)

Furthermore, Vigilantes can be rped rather easily with what we have: IFF (faction you work as a Vigilante for), ID Freelancer, coupled with a custom-made Bounty BOard by your lead-faction (represented in the IFF). Has been done with Lost Star in Taus, and I think it worked well. Having the IFF to show who you work for is a great way of individualizing your Vigilante char, and people understand what you are intuitively.

I am not completely opposed to a Vigilante ID, however it would have to be linked to IFF that shows who you are. Not another "lawful unlawful" faction that shows white to everybody but is red to 50 % in reality.

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[Pancakes]

I like the idea of "vilgilantes" (I loved the Lost Star rp), but reality has proven that it is an ID that is sooo damn easy to exploit (Kruger Vigilante in T23). I do not want to go back there.
Gameplaywise, Vigilantes would take away the jobs (already limited) for mercs/freelancers/BHG. All 3 groups are struggling (euphemism much)
Furthermore, Vigilantes can be rped rather easily with what we have: IFF (faction you work as a Vigilante for), ID Freelancer, coupled with a custom-made Bounty BOard by your lead-faction (represented in the IFF). Has been done with Lost Star in Taus, and I think it worked well. Having the IFF to show who you work for is a great way of individualizing your Vigilante char, and people understand what you are intuitively.
I am not completely opposed to a Vigilante ID, however it would have to be linked to IFF that shows who you are. Not another "lawful unlawful" faction that shows white to everybody but is red to 50 % in reality.

Vigilante doesn't work for someone (that's the whole point about Vigilante), I always thought of the IFF vigilantes are using more as a declaration of their zone of operations.
The infamous Kruger simply took away the meaning of Vigilante for sole abuse, no more, no less. Vigilante (or a Vigilante group) is a civilian that decided to operate outside the law in order to fight Criminals. IMG by no means were criminals, they were enemies but not criminals. Nowadays each ID lists if it's lawful or otherwise so. Vigilante ID cannot be abused anymore, since if you attack a player that doesn't carry an ID that specifically says "This is an unlawful ID" you are subjected to a rule violation report.
The problem that most people in Discovery don't actually realize whom are vigilantes, as in, the fact that people like that actually exist, what their goals are, and how they work.
( in case you are interested in vigilantes as of late http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante#21st_century)
As said before, even when the vigilante ID was out there - except for Lost Star Vigilantes, and the Kruger execution group, you could hardly see any vigilantes around. Why? Because it's one of the hardest IDs to play around with. You can only dock only on a handful of bases around Sirius, use VERY limited technology, and 95% of the factions in the game hates you and can engage you at whim. Think of playing a Corsair, without the special technology perks. I don't expect that after 20 days of the initial release of this ID many people would still play it, if the rest of the player-base will treat this ID as proper, leaving it out for those who actually want to role play Vigilantes (like the Lost Star ones).
Well, that was my 2 cents anyway.