Jack_Henderson Wrote:What we do not need is: smugglers who avoid lanes
This is something I've advocated for a long time, smugglers on the lanes means more activity for pirates, more for lawfuls (especially the police whose only bonus is the TLAGS) and more interactions overall.
Hidamar Wrote:I do need quote this though, because what person in a role play sense, is going to use the lanes while carrying ileagal goods. there are invisible smuggling lanes through open space which are actually pretty obvious. are you saying that smugglers need to use the lanes?
The question is, why RP as a smuggler if you're never seen? It's a self-defeating thought that just because smugglers in the real world aim not to get caught (for obvious reasons) that somehow it should be entertaining to do so on a mod based entirely around meeting people. Why give the police factions TLAGS if everyone they are looking for avoids the tradelanes and jumpgates? It's absolutely nonsensical.
We've all heard the same cyclical debates on the subject again and again so I think it's safe to say that the current mindset behind smuggling is what needs to change before anything practical can be done in game.
Why would a sane smuggler use lanes/gates when there is TLAGSNET, and a policeman Texas can know that you've entered California with contraband? If anything, it would seem that smuggling along lanes is OoRP, unless you can somehow convince a pirate or two to put on a diversion for you beforehand. Oh, look. I just involved someone else in my "solo activity".
My question is: Why are you against people making credits (Grinding) when the server has low pop? Isn't this a good thing? It means they will have money and ships for interactions during prime time...
(02-26-2015, 04:04 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: An ore run with a ~4k ship makes ~35 mil now and you have to pay a miner. You need 2 players. Your risk is considerable, as you lose the money you bought the ore for (never less than 10 mil). That leaves you at 25 mils profit, and you need 2 players cooperating.
Now, you complain about a single-player action "only" netting 22 million, with next to no risk in case you get caught.
So, you can anticipate my opinion. No.
We do not need even more unlawful "smuggling" that means inreality running a 5k into the base at low activity times, and involve a lot of oorp docking, FR5 madness, sanctions, caps instakilling transports, etc etc etc.
What we need is more regular traffic in the lanes that can be streamlined via bottlenecks to a few selling points, so that more interaction takes place.
What we do not need is: smugglers who avoid lanes, and remain invisible for even higher profit with more QQ involved in case they get hit because losing a lot hurts people and triggers the mad-cycle.
get rid of FR5ing smuggling and there will be less problems then.
i mean. It even goes down to being SEEN will illegal cargo sometimes and not even docking and you can get FR5ed. >.>
Dumb question, what's FR5? I've never heard the term before now....
Anyways, I concur with OP. Smuggling could stand for some "buffs" to the risk, adding excitement (and honestly worth). Right now smuggling is almost basically capped at the ptrain, already limiting the profit by a considerable amount of cargo space.
As a smuggler, you have a target on your back, that anyone who has the brains to scan you has a chance at shooting. Any freelancer can collect a bounty, cops, navy, greedy pirates, etc. Why not reward it?
You also get cool RP chances, like talking your way out of a situation, bribes, blababababa. If people sacrifice interaction and speed for a for reassuring chance at getting their cargo to point b (not taking tradielanes) they minimize their money making speed. Which in my opinion is a fair trade off.
Also, why force people to communicate? Like I understand that's the driving factor of the game. But if they wanna solemnly grind money and avoid player-to-player interaction. They shouldn't haaaave to find someone to mine for them, or whatever. Otherwise we lose the free from freelancer.
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I agree here we Saronsen, because, if we compare smuggling, and lawfull tradings... they not even near each other.
When you are lawfull trader, you can pick up cargo, which costs less than 500 credits per one unit. For example, basic alloy, or hydrocarbons, or some rare stuff from Gallia and sell them over than 3.5K per one unit.
Risks? What kind of risks? Well, you can meet a pirate, who ask you 2-3 millions. Heh...what is 2-3 millions, when lawfull 5Ker can make up to 100 millions in matter of one day? Plus...take in account, that lawfull ship us using trade lanes, and moving in civilizate space, which means...you have bases everywhere, where you can safedock. And pirate activity is not much greater, than lawkeeping forces activity.
And now... we have smuggler, who is interested in staying off range of lawkeeping forces. Not using trade lane...has limited cargo capacity. And........what risks he has? 2M or die? How about clean your hold and pay a fine? Sounds nice for you? And moreover...you want to make increase selling price for certain commoduties. So Saronsen has very solid point here.
(02-27-2015, 05:39 AM)MetalPheonix Wrote: Dumb question, what's FR5? I've never heard the term before now....
Anyways, I concur with OP. Smuggling could stand for some "buffs" to the risk, adding excitement (and honestly worth). Right now smuggling is almost basically capped at the ptrain, already limiting the profit by a considerable amount of cargo space.
As a smuggler, you have a target on your back, that anyone who has the brains to scan you has a chance at shooting. Any freelancer can collect a bounty, cops, navy, greedy pirates, etc. Why not reward it?
You also get cool RP chances, like talking your way out of a situation, bribes, blababababa. If people sacrifice interaction and speed for a for reassuring chance at getting their cargo to point b (not taking tradielanes) they minimize their money making speed. Which in my opinion is a fair trade off.
Also, why force people to communicate? Like I understand that's the driving factor of the game. But if they wanna solemnly grind money and avoid player-to-player interaction. They shouldn't haaaave to find someone to mine for them, or whatever. Otherwise we lose the free from freelancer.
Rewarding people for avoiding interaction is a really bad idea (See cloaks and jumpdrives for further proof of this) this mod thrives off meeting someone else, it's the only reason it exists. To say "Hey! You've avoided everyone on the server for a solid hour, have a big wad of credits!" is inviting disaster. It's why you'll never see smuggling prices made competitive to trading, not in it's current state anyway.
In a nutshell, Disco lives off traffic and the majority of this resides on the lanes. If you aren't on the lanes you are literally out of sight and out of mind, almost like you didn't exist.
In my opinion smuggling should be reworked entirely, from the ground up. Move it away from the big transports and focus it on freighters, push it as far away from normal trading as possible.
Make it a two part system, give pirates and unlawfuls a sell point closer to House space, price it for 3.6k cargo ships but NOT junker bases, give folks a little choice for a change.
From there, place docking satelites (like the one at Leeds) at certain planets and price the sales for freighter sized cargo.
Next MOVE THE SELL POINTS OUT OF LIBERTY, give each House a high demand for certain blackmarket items.
Now for the risk, the capital planets of each House will have their smuggler satelite NEXT to the docking rings with considerably higher sell prices.
Finally, for a bit of flair have the ID give a chance when flying a freighter to show TLAGs scans as a random basic commodity (food, goods etc).
For pricing, it should not contend with trading or mining/hauling that way folly lies. This system is about high risk, high reward but not excessive reward. For a full freighter at a main planet satelite I'd expect a payout of around 5 mill, for the backs of other planets around 1-2 mill. Max flight time from buy point to sell would be about 15 minutes tops, quicker if you use the lanes of course.
(02-27-2015, 12:56 PM)Croft Wrote: Rewarding people for avoiding interaction is a really bad idea (See cloaks and jumpdrives for further proof of this) this mod thrives off meeting someone else, it's the only reason it exists. To say "Hey! You've avoided everyone on the server for a solid hour, have a big wad of credits!" is inviting disaster. It's why you'll never see smuggling prices made competitive to trading, not in it's current state anyway.
what you are saying may be right, however the context you are using it in is just completely wrong.
because there are obvious paths across the galaxy to which smuggling has to go through, it is not hard to catch a smuggler at all. if the players responsible for catching the smugglers could be bothered they would just catch the smuggler. and if you are going to claim that all smugglers fly X amount of K off the plane you are lying. it is not worth doing.
So basically smugglers get punished because law enforcement is too dumb and lazy to use their brains and move between the two most direct paths across a system (which might not be on a lane), so its more like "Hey! since nobody could be bothered trying to catch you, weve made the amount of money you made from this not worth it!"
people will ALWAYS use the fastest route to get to a location. if somebody enters colorado via the galileo jumphole and is heading to new york, without the lanes (because unless they want to get caught they wont be using them) there is 1 path that can be taken, which cuts across TWO lanes and moves directly past a Xeno base.
back in the BPA we actually flew around the systems to catch smugglers because the paths are obvious, and now with light fighters being so much faster this issue should not exist.