.:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback

[Mímir]

Also it doesn't seem too unthinkable that a Junker wouldn't have a way of smuggling in a concealed firearm.

It kinda is though, imagine the daily blood baths in the Liberty court rooms if it was possible to just bring a gun and shoot the judge when he's being annoying.

But if you cleared it with the OP, then there's no problem. Have fun!

(Also it would be a lot easier to read your post if you use paragraphs, I gave up 2/3 in)

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[SnakThree]

You might be able to bring a plastic fork or knife into court room.

Not a firearm which has to go through metal-detector, X-ray and who-knows-what-kind-of-future-things in fictional universe where you have FTL travel via space bending lanes and jumpgates, not to mention portable jumpdrives, cloaking devices and so on.

I am also interested which admin was considering your case. I do hope it is not an admin who is biased and roots for Congress.

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[Sciamach]

Such anger over something incredibly minor

I'm sorry someone's creative freedom is upsetting everyone~

Hows about everyone lay it all to rest and move on with our lives instead of letting people uninvolved in a certain RP dictate something they have no place speaking in :)

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[ sci·am·ach ]
/sīˈamək/

A simple, angry man casually working his way through life on a personal quest to acquire copious amounts of street cred.

[FynnMcScrap]

Give them a break, will you ?

If cleared with OP , it´s np

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FynnMcScrap, Foreman of Tinkers Haven

[Kauket]

You might be able to bring a plastic fork or knife into court room.

Not a firearm which has to go through metal-detector, X-ray and who-knows-what-kind-of-future-things in fictional universe where you have FTL travel via space bending lanes and jumpgates, not to mention portable jumpdrives, cloaking devices and so on.

I am also interested which admin was considering your case. I do hope it is not an admin who is biased and roots for Congress.

Security isn't the only thing advancing, I would assume some smugglers would develop something to block out detectors/make it blind to them, I wouldn't go nitpicking on their story choice too much, just let it play it out.

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[JunkerTown]

Also it doesn't seem too unthinkable that a Junker wouldn't have a way of smuggling in a concealed firearm.

It kinda is though, imagine the daily blood baths in the Liberty court rooms if it was possible to just bring a gun and shoot the judge when he's being annoying.

But if you cleared it with the OP, then there's no problem. Have fun!

IF were to base the RP behind current standards in scanning people attending modern courts.
Guns have been smuggled into courts before and I'm sure will be again.
IF were to base the RP on future scanning devices?
Doesn't seem unimaginable a professional smuggler might have a device to avoid detection

(Also it would be a lot easier to read your post if you use paragraphs, I gave up 2/3 in)

Noted and updated the post into paragraph form.

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[JunkerTown]

Security isn't the only thing advancing, I would assume some smugglers would develop something to block out detectors/make it blind to them, I wouldn't go nitpicking on their story choice too much, just let it play it out.

Ninja'd by Nyx!

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[Echo 7-7]

After watching this farce devolve to its current state, it is time to shed some light on the truth and stop the Congress from making a mockery of the roleplay process.

In regards to this thread:
Implying that anybody else besides the necessary security personnel can enter the courtroom while in possession of any arms - which includes passing security detectors without firing off the alarms in case of hidden firearms - as well as a massive combat droid armed to the teeth just walking into the courtroom without any opposition, and then on top of this, roleplaying a scene where the situation is so tense it can result in a shooting at any moment, and only doesn't because you were so merciful you decided to order your own to stand down... if the combination of all of these is not outright and blatant powergaming, I don't know what is.
May I request information about in what direction and how far did your standards wander off? It did so long ago and is so far from us by now that I can't figure it out myself without help. I expected better from an official faction.

Seems very strange that I would need to justify ongoing RP.
Since I spoke with the OP and cleared it before posting.
Still because you asked I will tell you that the addition of Ace and his HIDDEN sidearm.
HIDDEN being the optimal word at no time did he reveal this fantasy gun.
Also it doesn't seem too unthinkable that a Junker wouldn't have a way of smuggling in a concealed firearm.

Cleared it with the OP? Actually, that's not the case. No members of the Liberty Government (henceforth abbreviated as LibGov) granted permission or acquiesced to aggressive roleplay inside the courtroom, and certainly did not give oorp or inrp permission for weapons to be brought into the courtroom.

Plus its important to understand the reason for any of this RP to be added at all.
It wasn't to delay the trial or attempt to powergame the situation in anyway.
IF the LibGov hadn't tried to circumvent the ongoing RP trial and force their authority on us in Puerto Rico.
Then none of this would've occurred.
See here their attempt to forgo the RP trial.
Now while they try and claim the trial and their desire to enter PR are unrelated we feel they are very much one in the same.
Seems rather powergaming to attempt something like this with an ongoing RP trial before a verdict is reached.
Not wanting to get any admin intervention in regards to this situation the decision was made to try and RP it out.
Before the 'leaving' post was made it was also discussed with the OP and officiator for the trial.
AT NO TIME did we ever plan on actually leaving the court or stopping the trial.
Our only goal with all this was to allow for the trial to continue inrp without fear of outside reprisal.
Sending Marcus into the court was not even considered and was only done after considerable oorp discussion.

As for there being an "attempt to forgo the RP trial", that is evidently not the case. In LibGov's own words:

... Additionally, the ongoing trial is for crimes related to other laws being violated. This communication, pertinent to another law, is directed at the enforcement of that, not retribution for breaking it. ...

There is clear acknowledgement of the trial taking place, and an unambiguous statement explaining that this communication is a separate matter. It is purely coincidental that failure to comply with the demands would likely result in a combined punishment for the Congress.

It is definitely not powergaming, since the Congress are not being denied an opportunity to respond appropriately, and/or they are not put being in a position where the actions they can take have been forcefully limited by an outside party (note: this is not the same as taking actions to avoid negative consequences; for example a thief chooses to resist arrest because he doesn't want to go to jail and thus is shot by a police officer, it's the thief's fault for getting shot).

While you say you were "Not wanting to get any admin intervention", at least the staff can see the hypocrisy in this statement.

Once again, Congress did not receive any clearance or permission to bring the robot Marcus into the courtroom. It is unfathomable to LibGov how you could consider this a remotely acceptable course of action both in and out of character.

Even still I did attempt to discuss it with the person responsible for making the demand to enter PR.
An admin was also present during that discussion and it was suggested that demanding entry now was bad timing.
Altho he never agreed to remove the post he claimed that he had neglected to read the post before posting.
He seemed to be ready to discuss it now after reading it fully and ask for it to be changed.
The post wasn't changed and rumor had it that when we didn't comply we were going to be considered hostile in Liberty.
We did what we thought was necessary to allow the original RP to proceed.

Yes, there was a discussion regarding the thread about access to PR and the POBs within; the result of that discussion and consequent leniency recognised that San Juan was supposed to be a "secret" station, and then any reference to the base's existence was removed from LibGov's opening post.

However, LibGov has no records or awareness of any Admins participating in that particular discussion, or having participated in any related communications whatsoever. Note that there are no past or present Admins currently acting as members of LibGov, so it must be questioned who this Admin was and in what capacity they were communicating with the Congress.

Since my post is being picked apart and non relevant things being focused on I'll offer an explanation.
Anytime I make an RP post I try and give consideration and thought to all currently involved.
I want anyone that I know will be reading it to see their character in my post and having their own small part of the action.
In the past this was looked on favorably when someone would see something about their character in the post.
This has ranged from 'saving the day', 'being the hero' and various other things.
Most folks aren't interested in reading RP posts in the first place.
In my experience mentioning their char's name or RP about that char gives them a reason to read it.
Even if its just reading the small part about their involvement at least it gets looked at.
Considering I am not a writer I don't blame anyone not wanting to read the RP posts I make anyway.
While I guess I could've said that Ace was there but picking his nose or scratching his butt while all this happened around him.
It wouldn't do much to support his char's RP or highlight him being involved in anyway.

LibGov does not empathise with your out-of-character intentions; even if you think "sticking it to The Man" somehow enlightens other forum users, a certain degree of formality and decorum is expected.

If a player participating in any given forum roleplay feels that their character is tied when they would rather be roleplaying elsewhere, it does raise the question of whether or not the character should have become involved in that scenario in the first place. Commonly, large organisations will send diplomats or representatives whose sole job is attend to matters when a physical presence is required and another character does not want to be occupied with it.

As to the decision JT made not to shoot his way out or as you say "because you were so merciful".
The outcome of a shoot out was undetermined even tho he considers it for a moment as Junkers are often ill tempered.
Considering the repercussions he decides it is best for everyone to comply with the lawful order.
As previously stated I'm not a writer but I do make an attempt to add an element of excitement for the reader.
So to sum it up. Ace's fantasy gun wasn't shown or seen by anyone and was to remain hidden.
The scene setup for the stand down was to give the post a bit more flare for dramatic effect.
No harm or consequence was intended or implied with regard to both of those things mentioned.

Bringing weapons of any kind into a court of law is a crime on its own, even before considering the other allegations being raised against the Congress. This begs the question whether or not the Congress players were intentionally trying to make their characters' situation even more dire than before.

Even if you did not intend to cause any harm through the actions you classify as mere posturing, both the LibGov characters and players behind the characters have to take the actions presented at face value and respond appropriately. It is highly likely that discharging any weapon or attempting to leave the court would result in the Congress characters suffering severe consequences, potentially including but not limited to severe injury, arrest and incarceration without trial, or even death (as well as diminishing the Congress' already poor reputation with LibGov).

Finally I would just like to say we didn't want or plan for this RP detour that has delayed the trial.
Would rather get it all over with and on to other things as it is delaying other ongoing RP projects.

This detour has occurred solely through Congress' own actions. Congress characters brought weapons into the court. Congress characters brought an armed robot into the court. Congress characters threatened immediate aggressive to have their way.

It is worth noting that Tal's post in the trial thread, which has since been deleted by the forum staff, was not at any stage permitted or approved by LibGov; hence its deletion. This is the standard response to players posting in threads to which they have not been invited. To consider it as anything more is pure folly.

On a personal note I would just like to say when I do post.. which isn't alot.
I tend to think it through and consider it carefully to make it good or at least decent.
Since I've made this latest RP post plenty of jokes have been made about my descriptive wording.
I've been literally grilled about a fictional gun over skype, TS and here.
I'm a veteran and don't really care but I wonder if I weren't?
What if this was a new player who's just learning to RP or doing their best to read/write English.??

Your hypothetical scenario is irrelevant here. A new player unfamiliar with RP or struggling to communicate in English would most likely not be brought to a court of law in the first place as LibGov would choose alternate forms of resolution. You should not be surprised to know that the players of LibGov are in fact capable of understanding and leniency when appropriate.

I am personally thankful for anyone attempting to RP in game or on the forum.
It's the reason I am here.. blue msgs, pvp, endless trading and FLOOD are not why I log in to the game or forum.
Maybe instead of taking a post SO literal we could try seeing the reason or meaning behind the post and it's OP.
Dissect my post, make accusations, fixate on certain words, make fun of me and ridicule the RP if you wish.
It's the best I can do and some folks have expressed their encouragement.
Those people are the reason I do it and inspire me to continue on.

Don't like what I write, don't read it.

To reiterate, for a properly immersive experience, a character involved in a given roleplay is most likely to act instinctively, and will not have time to fully deconstruct another character's behaviour in order to calculate the best course of action - at least for scenarios where the in-character time between posts is nearly immediate. An experienced roleplayer would know not to have their character treat other characters as if they were mind-readers.

I have to ask if getting shot in the courtroom right here and now was a part of your RP progress.

Nope.

So why did you bring guns?


Why is the Congress under the impression that their characters' actions in the court thread are permitted by LibGov?

Which Admin(s) have you been talking to who has given you the false impression that there have been staff-mediated discussions, and/or your actions have been approved by the staff?

[Sath]

Junkers shooting up courtrooms? "obligatory xdddd"

[matster]

"Bringing weapons of any kind into a court of law is a crime on its own," Broad and general statement. While it is possible this is universally true on earth (I don't know) I wonder if it is in the laws of Liberty as stated on these forums or any documents provided elsewhere. Why is this even an argument? ITS A FREAKING GAME CHILDREN!