.:j:. Junker Congress Faction Feedback

[matster]

I'm not here to appease any individual's warped sense of realism - I'm here to get some answers from the Congress (preferably from their leadership who are supposed to be responsible for the faction) regarding why they're distorting facts and accusing LibGov of powergaming, along with overall negative criticism of the handling of their roleplay.

"Warped Realisim"
OK the problem that was being discussed was whether it was realistic for a gun to be in a courtroom. IE realism. Since realism is an issue I thought it appropriate to point out how realism was tossed into the wind by the raid conducted. That actually leads to this idea that a group is using personal dislike to control in game activity and thus working outside RP. My suggestion that the government (for the time being) would gloss over the issue somehow (like by fining congress) is likely the outcome would be knowledge a quasi-criminal organization would have. The tone of this situation makes it seem like there is something more personal than RP at work here. I believe that is why the Congress feels there is some power gaming issue here.

You criticise the actions of the Forces of Liberty because they are unrealistic by your standards, when such realism is in fact highly subjective in this context. Therefore, your complaint carries very little weight. It would be appreciated if you were to stop avoiding the criticisms of the Congress being presented (assuming you are both a member of Congress and are defending the faction), and if you have concerns of your own regading a different faction, you should raise them in the appropriate thread, such as that faction's own feedback thread.

"You criticise the actions of the Forces of Liberty because they are unrealistic by your standards, when such realism is in fact highly subjective in this context." No you miss my point. I am trying to make the same point as you. How can you criticize the 'realistic-ness' of an action in an RP game? IE guns in a courtroom? Now if Liberty wants to actually retro write a specific law against carrying a weapon into a courtroom then we can remove said post(s) and move on.

[Sarawr!?]

You see, in the [LN] feedback thread, and in many other factions as well, only the leadership is allowed to respond. That that isn't the case for the Junker Congress DOES sort of raise some questions in my mind, but I don't really want to get into that here.

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[LN] Recruitment | Rachel Baker Bio

[Jihadjoe]

Matster, some time ago your perspective may have been right, Liberty WAS willing to turn a blind eye to certain things, but as late (and really for the past year or so), the Junker Congress' relationship with the GOVERNMENT (Not the corporations) of Liberty has been steadily deteriorating, as they've been found more and more often to be committing brazen criminal acts, and trying to dodge out of the consequences as well.
And now, drawing weapons in a cout of law? You cannot HONESTLY think that's something the government should just shrug off. At this point, inRP, the Congress is doing more HARM than GOOD to the government of Liberty, from the government's perspective.

Actually Sarah, there have been numerous similar incidents over the last few years. The congress has been called to account for roleplay actions several times, and each time it has been met with the sort of oorp/inrp crossover poop-storm that we see today, as the Congress have attempted to vigorourly sidestep any and all negative results for their inrp actions.
The methods have included:
- Simply not responding to roleplay attempts to hold the congress responsible for their inrp action.
- Making inrp agreements and compromises, and then not upholding their end of the deal on these.
- Making oorp agreements about how the factions will interact, and then not upholding their end of the agreement on this, and protesting innocence and ignorance when confronted with this.
- Accusations of "faction bias", "prejudice" and "oorp hate" levelled against myself and other members of the Liberty Navy and Liberty government.
- Comparing members of the Liberty government to Hitler.
I wish I was joking.

[Sarawr!?]

Oh Joe, I didn't mean to imply it hadn't been going on for longer than the past year/two years, but some of that stuff does predate me, or rather my involvement, so I didn't wanna comment on it...buuuut yeah. The more things change, right?

I did thoroughly encounter your first, second, and fourth points though, during my time as the leader of the [LN], and from what I've seen since wandering back to Disco, they're still keeping to that modus operandi, so that's nice.

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[LN] Recruitment | Rachel Baker Bio

[Hermes]

This is a feedback thread. Yes, feedback is being given but quite a bit of this is player vs player and the Congress Feedback page isn't the right place for it. If you want to do that, take it to skype. Quite a few posts have been made invised.

I actually find the above words very wise and reasonable, and i hope some will read it again and again.
This thread is on it's way to be the "Feedback for Disco Factions?" .. I'm sure there is a way to handle this
thread better than that ladies and gentlemen.

regards,
Xenon

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[Pancakes]

Why should the trial be supervised by admins? Since when the admins need to supervise continuation of roleplay done by two factions?

And yes, a shoot-out as result of drug bust is roleplaying. I hardly get why the admins need to interfere there. The thread should be kept simple - Only 2 people may post - the LibGov account and one Junker that stands as a Junker representative. The rest could be called in specifically by either party by "I summon blahlbah to give testimony" and after it give the ooRP username of the guy.

Everyone else posting? Same like in any other RP thread that isn't meant for them to use - forum ban for 24hours.

It can't be that Admin intervention in something like this seems ridiculous only for me, is it?

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

[Garrett Jax]

There shouldn't be a need for Admin involvement, nor should Admins want to intervene in the RP of others. Only intervention that is necessary is in cases of rule violations, such as powergaming, metagaming and the like.

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[WildBill]

Everyone needs to calm down. I am having a blast with the Trial RP going on right now. We do take the trial seriously. Several threats have been made and misinformation has been spread between the players involved. The trial RP is starting to take shape. JT had to try to find a way out of the courtroom due to (siege) threats. These threats were found to be false, however, the need to gather forces to defend Puerto Rico takes priority over any trial being held. From an actual law enforcement point of view, yes, firearms and other "undetectable" weapons are smuggled into courtrooms every day across America. The screening methods are consistently circumvented by both criminals and *gasp* lawful entities. John and I have talked extensively about the misinformation and this problem has been addressed. A hidden firearm was brought in to the courtroom. It was not flaunted, only barely mentioned. Calm down, it's fun RP. It seems to me that any time we (Congress) develops anything that might be considered fun RP, we are hammered with negative feedback. This is how we play the game, this is how our diplomacy works. I for one am sick and tired of catering to everyone else play/RP styles. Seems that everyone believes we are required to play/RP within their predetermined limits. This is not the case. If you want us to RP to your style, if you want us to play the game the way you think it should be played, tough.

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Wild Bill's Custom Interface

[Echo 7-7]

I'm not here to appease any individual's warped sense of realism - I'm here to get some answers from the Congress (preferably from their leadership who are supposed to be responsible for the faction) regarding why they're distorting facts and accusing LibGov of powergaming, along with overall negative criticism of the handling of their roleplay.

"Warped Realisim"
OK the problem that was being discussed was whether it was realistic for a gun to be in a courtroom. IE realism. Since realism is an issue I thought it appropriate to point out how realism was tossed into the wind by the raid conducted. That actually leads to this idea that a group is using personal dislike to control in game activity and thus working outside RP. My suggestion that the government (for the time being) would gloss over the issue somehow (like by fining congress) is likely the outcome would be knowledge a quasi-criminal organization would have. The tone of this situation makes it seem like there is something more personal than RP at work here. I believe that is why the Congress feels there is some power gaming issue here.

You criticise the actions of the Forces of Liberty because they are unrealistic by your standards, when such realism is in fact highly subjective in this context. Therefore, your complaint carries very little weight. It would be appreciated if you were to stop avoiding the criticisms of the Congress being presented (assuming you are both a member of Congress and are defending the faction), and if you have concerns of your own regading a different faction, you should raise them in the appropriate thread, such as that faction's own feedback thread.

"You criticise the actions of the Forces of Liberty because they are unrealistic by your standards, when such realism is in fact highly subjective in this context." No you miss my point. I am trying to make the same point as you. How can you criticize the 'realistic-ness' of an action in an RP game? IE guns in a courtroom? Now if Liberty wants to actually retro write a specific law against carrying a weapon into a courtroom then we can remove said post(s) and move on.

Actually, you were the first person to raise the concept of realism; I am not here to demand realism, only response to criticism and acknowledgement of consequences. Your are either explicitly or implicitly distracting from the core criticisms at hand; any argument that relies on a logical fallacy is not worth paying attention to. In fact, in my previous post I identified how concerns regarding other factions should be handled (ie. not in this thread).

This is a feedback thread. Yes, feedback is being given but quite a bit of this is player vs player and the Congress Feedback page isn't the right place for it. If you want to do that, take it to skype. Quite a few posts have been made invised.

I actually find the above words very wise and reasonable, and i hope some will read it again and again.
This thread is on it's way to be the "Feedback for Disco Factions?" .. I'm sure there is a way to handle this
thread better than that ladies and gentlemen.

regards,
Xenon

If the concerns and criticisms being raised about the Congress in this thread were invalid, the staff would have already issued censure. I myself as a moderator can see whose posts have been edited (to remove insults or flaming) or whose posts have been deleted for being off-topic (eg. ad-hominem attacks that bear little relevance to the discussion at hand). The majority of posts so far have not required staff intervention, which should make it clear to you that most of the behaviour so far in this thread has been acceptable.

Attempting to leverage the threat of moderation is no excuse to bury your head in the sand.

[Pinko]

and you guys (to the ones involved) openly transported cardi from the base to huston and back a few times and make a good buck before getting caught

Safely confiscating illegal goods is one of the few benefits of playing a lawful faction, it's far from being an OOrp thing for them to do.