Discussion Faction rephacked hostile: Order

[Miaou]

Now for a more ontopic post.

I play as a zoner, so I find this somewhat odd. I'm guessing this all happened while I was away so I didn't get to witness the drama directly, but thanks to Vipex I understand better.

This is not the first time TAZ has caused an entire faction go full hostile to Zoners. I'm all for people having their own diplomacy and battles, but when you drag in the entirety of the zoners it's kinda lame. My own zoner, who's not even involved with the TAZ or have had interactions with the Order is suddenly hostile to a faction. That's bad.

As many people have suggested, I'd like to ask that TAZ get their own IFF so they can have their own roleplay that doesn't cause problems for others. I'm not any Zoner factions or the Order faction, but as a player I'd like to request this. Seeing as the staff are watching this thread, I'd hope they can see how this can fix a few problems and weigh in if this is an actual possibility.

[Swifty]

The Admins weren't the ones who metagamed. We weren't the ones that committed ID violations. We are not the ones that have left no way for this situation to be resolved. We stated a fix and it's up to the players to take advantage of it. It's not that hard really. Very easy, in fact. Also, this matter wasn't just between two factions either, so I'm not sure what facts you are choosing to listen to, as I've stated in this thread who the main participants in this Disco drama are already.

But they are the ones who made this decision because they felt like doing something about it by involving the indies in something extremely stupid too, and that's where you effed up. Order| Being hostile to TAZ makes sense. They dislike the **** out of each other. Why? Simple - Order and TAZ have had some issues for a while now, ooRPly, and iRP. Details are not important hence it's none of my business. Just give TAZ their own diplomacy since they, by themselves, made it clear that they 'don't wanna have to do anything with the Zoners' no more. Make them hostile the eff out towards The Order, and give the allied rep of Zoners back to Order. It's not that hard. On top of things, you, me and the staff already know that Order and Taz won't happen to fix their relations anytime soon because of their giant egos.

You're claims of Admin abuse are absurd and I take personal offense to them. So what if I pay the bills. So what if I'm an Admin. It has nothing to do with anything. Official faction members representing an NPC faction acted hostile toward each other. Their diplomacy was set to match. If it hurts the server or the respective factions, then fix it. We've been waiting for the factions to start acting friendly toward each other in order to set the diplomacy back to where it was. Instead of beating on us, why don't you direct your concerns to the respective factions? They are the ones with the power to change our minds. These ignorant attacks on the staff do nothing.

Take it as you wish, i'm just stating the facts the way i see them. If i'm wrong, hell i don't care, i'm not meant to be right all the time. As i stated above, they won't start acting friendly towards each other because of their giant egos and other reasons. But as far as i see, talking this out, trying to work something out to fix the Order rep is pointless, maybe you should lock the thread and people here who wasted their time should just move on. I don't see a good reason to keep this discussion going if you say it will change nothing at all because 'hurr hurr we want them to stop acting like little ****** and start acting like grown men and fix the issues between them, even if they don't want that, we will force them if needed'.

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[Lythrilux]

I don't think there's any admin abuse, they did have good intentions. The admins just didn't forsee the other impacts of the rephack.

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[Swifty]

Even so, what's the point screwing them THAT bad over something Order has against a faction that doesn't even want to be in the big happy Zoner family anymore? Where is the sense in that? Phoenix never had issues with Order, OSI didn't either as far as i know, they are still rephacked.

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[Sabru]

Even so, what's the point screwing them THAT bad over something Order has against a faction that doesn't even want to be in the big happy Zoner family anymore? Where is the sense in that? Phoenix never had issues with Order, OSI didn't either as far as i know, they are still rephacked.

Since my earlier post seemed to have been ignored, i'll be clear:

OSI - Under their previous leader, they had some conflict with Order| (there was even shooting in O-49 at one point if iirc)
Phoenix - They werent zoners, they were Order flunkies pretending to be zoners, which is part of the reason why the admins de-officialled them. That, and some attempted powergaming using zoner indies in support of Order by Phoenix leader

Again, there is a metric ton of stuff that people outside of the involved factions and the admins dont know about.

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[Jack_Henderson]

The underlying general issue - imo - is that there is an unhealthy trend in Disco (which is not limited to Omicrons) :

1. strong (often pvp-oriented) factions define themselves as "mightier than X" (X= a neutral, often a "soft-target" faction)
2. draw the conclusion: "we do not need them" (= "self-sufficiency" argument)
3. consequently ignore/harrass/tax/... in general: treat X badly
4. in the end attack them after players of X are frustrated by their "door mat role" enough and fight back (often clumsily => sanctions, many blue-s)
5. the strong faction ultimately define X as enemies, justifying it with point 4 plus the "they are lolwuts" argument. (while ignoring the neutrality lore)
6. The stronger faction of course does not expect to get negative consequences (reasons: see 1, 2)
7. while the weaker faction is expected to suffer (they actually do because they get blue-ed a lot)

I understand why Admins stepped in there and added some "hurt" to a side in this conflict.
Might not be good for gameplay, but solutions have been pointed out and are rather easy. Order would have to make a first step towards Zoners. Changing points 1 and 2 might help.

Jack

P.S: I am not a fan of Order indies being caught up in this, tbh. Feels like the bad actions of the official faction forces indies to rp out-of-lore diplomacy now. Faction rights actually forbid official factions to influence indies to rp to do something that is not lore.

[Moberg]

As a matter of fact, the Order inRP still has friendly relations with the Zoners, just not with TAZ.

Some examples are the links I posted before, and the following
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=125222 with OSI
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=126529 with indie Zoner groups

Basically no one but TAZ follows the decision, only the part that is forced through gameplay. I can't blame them, it's a 180° turn for no substantial reason at all.

[Alvin]

Even so, what's the point screwing them THAT bad over something Order has against a faction that doesn't even want to be in the big happy Zoner family anymore? Where is the sense in that? Phoenix never had issues with Order, OSI didn't either as far as i know, they are still rephacked.

Since my earlier post seemed to have been ignored, i'll be clear:

OSI - Under their previous leader, they had some conflict with Order| (there was even shooting in O-49 at one point if iirc)
Phoenix - They werent zoners, they were Order flunkies pretending to be zoners, which is part of the reason why the admins de-officialled them. That, and some attempted powergaming using zoner indies in support of Order by Phoenix leader

Again, there is a metric ton of stuff that people outside of the involved factions and the admins dont know about.

I will try give a voice Phoenix as there is no else here to defend them-
Yes, despite putting on the neutral face like all Zoners do, their policies are pro aligned to Order for obvious reasons as you can below.

Bass hunters - Order / AI saved their POB from being destroyed multiple times.
ZA - AI & Order was first to respond to the situation, OSI and TAZ turned a blind eye to the problem initially and then refused to take any action against it after acknowledging their existence.
Nomads - No need to even expand on that
Core - Both indies and faction joined in later and found every opportunity to harass them. Order was basically a distraction / cannon fodder between the two.

After all that going on, I am sure one would remember who to rely on and the ones to avoid in the Omicron, even if you are trying to be a neutral entity living there. I am sure TAZ would do the same, under attack from Gallia / Order, you would secretly call on Council / bring in the Core to balance out the situation.

Anyway, if the Phoenix were really Order "flunkies", the Core would have gladly flushed them out in a blink of an eye ages ago.