Making snubs more appealing

[Sciamach]

Not even for lore reasons, but more because of the skill->power ratio mentioned in the video in my first post. While the lore fitting the gameplay would be nice, utterly making capital shields immune to snubs would be a mistake.

---

[ sci·am·ach ]
/sīˈamək/

A simple, angry man casually working his way through life on a personal quest to acquire copious amounts of street cred.

[Lythrilux]

Fighters mingling with CAPITAL balance causes all sorts of issues and complications and gives us the irritating situations that we have now. Keeping the classes distant from each other will not only make balancing easier, but it will benefit gameplay and make both sides of PvP happy.

---

[Sciamach]

Also: I would advise further reading through the following extra credits episodes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w

---

[ sci·am·ach ]
/sīˈamək/

A simple, angry man casually working his way through life on a personal quest to acquire copious amounts of street cred.

[Shiki]

Not even for lore reasons, but more because of the skill->power ratio mentioned in the video in my first post. While the lore fitting the gameplay would be nice, utterly making capital shields immune to snubs would be a mistake.

Don't you trying to say that all snub pilots are skilled and all cap pilots are noobs who trying to get a least a bit of fun under CAU VIII? There is SKILLED gunboat and cruiser pilots (and go try to kill pro gunboat/cruiser pilot in a snubs), they have a power AND a skill. And we have many unskilled snub pilots which have a low power.

---

[Haste]

What we have right now in Disco is the scenario mentioned with the "noobtube", and the lack thereof. "You'd instead have a small community of veterans just churning through new players at an alarming rate--Just crushing each noob who dared to show their face in multiplayer. All of those new players would quickly get discouraged and quit."

That scenario sound familiar to anyone? Cos it certainly does for me.

I recall a time when Missiles were there to level the playing field, but someone probably suffering from terminal brain damage decided that such an item needed to go out the window for some utterly contrived reason. This kind of diachotomy is what we need back for snubs to actually be entertaining to the un-initiated again.

Did you watch the video yourself? It states specifically that the top dogs of those games generally don't use those noob tubes as they're objectively inferior to more skill-based weapons. This really wasn't the case with the initial ridiculous missiles. If five players came at you with firestalkers and you brought four friends (plus yourself, making five, duh) with six guns mounted rather than five guns and a missile, you lost. No amount of CMs ever stopped the missile swarm. You and your five buddies would get ripped apart before you even brought down one missile-wielding enemy.

That is why missiles in that state were flawed. Mind that there's some plans for missiles right now that should hopefully make them as a whole more interesting. However, I have no interest in making 80% of VHF damage output come from tracking, fire-and-forget weapons with near-zero skill requirement.

[Epo]

Not even for lore reasons, but more because of the skill->power ratio mentioned in the video in my first post. While the lore fitting the gameplay would be nice, utterly making capital shields immune to snubs would be a mistake.

Don't you trying to say that all snub pilots are skilled and all cap pilots are noobs who trying to get a least a bit of fun under CAU VIII? There is SKILLED gunboat and cruiser pilots (and go try to kill pro gunboat/cruiser pilot in a snubs), they have a power AND a skill. And we have many unskilled snub pilots which have a low power.

The same goes for the opposite. There are and always will be pros and noobs, just the gap between them should be nerfed somehow. As it was told: Disco is already getting older and fewer and fewer people are starting playing here. We won't gain more if there's such a huge gap between pros and nabs. No, I've got nothing against getting better, just not much people wants to invest that much time in such a old game. Also kudos to all those experienced guys, for the time and work spent here, you deserve it, but:

"You'd instead have a small community of veterans just churning through new players at an alarming rate--Just crushing each noob who dared to show their face in multiplayer. All of those new players would quickly get discouraged and quit."

[Sciamach]

Did you watch the video yourself? It states specifically that the top dogs of those games generally don't use those noob tubes as they're objectively inferior to more skill-based weapons. This really wasn't the case with the initial ridiculous missiles. If five players came at you with firestalkers and you brought four friends (plus yourself, making five, duh) with six guns mounted rather than five guns and a missile, you lost. No amount of CMs ever stopped the missile swarm. You and your five buddies would get ripped apart before you even brought down one missile-wielding enemy.

That is why missiles in that state were flawed. Mind that there's some plans for missiles right now that should hopefully make them as a whole more interesting. However, I have no interest in making 80% of VHF damage output come from tracking, fire-and-forget weapons with near-zero skill requirement.

My failure was conveying that poorly.

Yes missiles worked for the noobtube comparison but they also failed in it because of the way they were setup and armed. Making missiles more fit to the mold mentioned in the video was the idea I was trying to convey. My mistake~

Don't you trying to say that all snub pilots are skilled and all cap pilots are noobs who trying to get a least a bit of fun under CAU VIII? There is SKILLED gunboat and cruiser pilots (and go try to kill pro gunboat/cruiser pilot in a snubs), they have a power AND a skill. And we have many unskilled snub pilots which have a low power.

I'm aware that there are skilled pilots in the other ship classes, the issue that comes up is that irregardless of the skill of the person in a larger vessel, there always seems to be a solution that involves snubs. What I'm saying is that snubs in their current form don't have a strong enough counter to be able to effectively turn the tide of a fight to the favor of the capital pilot, save for having friends that are skilled enough in snubs on your side.

---

[ sci·am·ach ]
/sīˈamək/

A simple, angry man casually working his way through life on a personal quest to acquire copious amounts of street cred.

[pillow]

Not even for lore reasons, but more because of the skill->power ratio mentioned in the video in my first post. While the lore fitting the gameplay would be nice, utterly making capital shields immune to snubs would be a mistake.

Don't you trying to say that all snub pilots are skilled and all cap pilots are noobs who trying to get a least a bit of fun under CAU VIII? There is SKILLED gunboat and cruiser pilots (and go try to kill pro gunboat/cruiser pilot in a snubs), they have a power AND a skill. And we have many unskilled snub pilots which have a low power.

A Fighter destroying/even damaging a Battleship is beyond stupid and you should feel bad for saying that it's not.

Also this, maybe reducing amount of mines in ship would be a good idea - just to 10 or maybe 5. Or removing them, but people won't agree on completely removing them. But yes, it's something annoying when you hit one mine and it takes away 80% of your hull if you are not focusing on avoiding them.

Epo, both snubs and caps require skill to use.
If you're not careful, you're going to get dunked on.
If you're not careful while on a ship as fragile as Light Fighter, whose main purpose is to be a scout and be careful, then you're doing it entirely wrong.

I enjoy it a lot when my own stupidity makes me eat a mine.
Hell, the fastest death I ever had was Screamer myself without a shield on accident. And then eat the opponents nuke right after. The fight took less than ten seconds. I didn't even get to right-click. Mistakes were made. I should've been careful. I wasn't.

[Karst]

I can't answer that question, as I find snubs plenty interesting as it is.
They're the most intuitive to fly, the most suited to the engine. They offer by far the greatest variety and unmatched combat flexibility.

If any class is to be rebalanced they are at the bottom of the list.

---

[Doria]

I agree with some points made here, so I would like to list them and add my point of view.

- Mines: I agree that mines like they are now are not optimal. Of course they must be dangerous and deadly, but perhaps ships should not be able to carry as many as they do now. Limiting the number would make the pilot to use them with a little more thought instead of spamming them around the enemy.
- Missiles: they should be more useful than they are now. Hard to hit with it, but when it hits it should cause big damage. Also with limited number (like 10 tops) so you should use them wisely.
- Snubs vs Caps: well, we have bombers for a reason, that is to hit capitals. But how it is today it takes too long to shoot a cap down even with some numbers, so I agree with the notion that bombers vs caps fights should be more dynamic. At the same time, bombers are kinda easy to shoot down with a fighter, they should last long in a snub fight, while not being able to cause THAT much damage to other snubs.

Now my extra one: I think that VHF's should be more useful against transports. It makes the pirate's ship of choice the bomber, which is slow against other snubs. Making VHF's more useful against transports would be good for pirate and police factions.

Yes, I say that and I fly a weaponless thin paper transport most of the time.