Development Notice: Mining Update

[Lythrilux]

Wow! These really are terrible changes, I can't even believe this thread is real in regards to mining getting so heavily slashed. I like the new sell points (although rip scrap metal, it was good for RP) but the biggest change is the worst here imo.

Karst and Co worked on some really good rebalanced prices that could have just been put in and that would have been the end of it. Why didn't that happen rather than this incredibly maverick solution being pushed?

---

[Jack_Henderson]

Despite the initial outrage about the pricing, this mining update earns some more substantial feedback. Visibly, effort has been put into it, so I'll go over the changes bit by bit.

- The amount of ore sources has been reduced to a maximum of two. Where applicable, ores only have one source and their source(s) shared with multiple factions.

Generally a good call. This should increase interaction in these areas. The time when every faction had "their own" fields worked in high-player times, but it does not any more.

Now I can already see roleplay that excludes factions from a system, so that their bonus is actually useless. I can see it e.g. happen in Omega 7 with Silver ore mined on IMG ID.

- The amount of lawful routes has been reduced massively. Every ore now has one main route at 100% credits per second efficiency and an alternative route at 75% credits per second efficiency.

Reduction of ore destination and therefore routes will help in streamlining traffic.
If this traffic is forced through choke points, this will work. (however quite a few selling points do not have choke points in them and are therefore at a big advantage)

There should however be:

2 x 100 % destinations. In House capitals. Behind 2 shoke points.

Make the ratio for the 2nd tier selling point 85 - 90 % of the best price (and thus more a psychological than a real factor) to keep it in any way viable.
With 75 %, you can also just delete it as an option and just give one selling point.

- In almost every greater region that the ore passes through, unlawful bases buy the ores that pass through at 85% credits per second efficiency. Every unlawful character should be able to dock on at least one unlawful base that buys ores. If I overlooked something in that regard, give me a notice.

Interesting call. It will increase cargo piracy and massively ups the risk for ore traders.
This only works if the incentive to carry ore and take the risk of losing it is high.
We need high prices for that because losing your cargo to a pirate close to selling point hurts and demotivates especially those who still have to trade to become part of the real game.

Your nerfs of price run completely against this one. Pirates cannot cargo-pirate someone who is not there any more.
I am all for buffing risk and piracy. But keep it interesting for the ore traders, or your whole construct will never work.
Risk and reward need to be in relation. Your pricing killed that, even without adding a real cargo piracy threat.

Furthermore, some off-lane routes have no bottlenecks in them, AND are very short at the same time - therefore profiting twice. Uncut Diamonds and the Core ore selling point come to the mind immediately.

- @Xoria made me aware that ores are massively overpriced compared to other commodities and after a discussion we agreed it would be best to make the target credits per second per unit (called c/s/u in the future) heavily drop.
- Ores now pay only slightly higher than contraband, with the difference that the mining time is accounted for in route duration twice (one for the miner, one for the transport). Furthermore, unlike contraband, ore stays legal unless the governing bodies of the region decide otherwise.

I have the feeling that this mistake is already being reverted, so I'll not put much effort on it.

Just this: It's a wrong call that will cost Disco dearly in activity and interaction, will buff solo activity and kill off cooperative action.

- The majority of fields have been made non-interactable by players within gameplay only. In roleplay, these fields are not mined out unless the story or a story developer point out that they are.

Good call in general.

Now fields will have to be placed in fair locations, so that the participating parties have equal chances. Fields and NPC bases should be around roughly 30k from each other. E.g. Mollys in Dublin are kind of screwed now with the only field in Chester hole location. They have a mining bonus and no way in hell to reach any base if under attack (I'd guess 70+ k from next Molly base).

Fields should be place in a central location (like the stars in some systems), and NPC bases for the mining factions should be at the same distance around it. Gameplay is very important in these mining aspects.

- Mining rates have been adjusted on all remaining fields so that they yield the same amount of cargo on average as current high-yield fields

.

Good call. This was really stupid in the old version.
Tnx for cleaning it up.

Ore prices are no longer rough estimates without any visible system behind them, but instead calculated through a few simple factors, making each route pay equally per time travelled.

In general: good call.
Now please just take the "route used in reality" and not the one you think that "should be used".
Guess which one is the strongest route again because hole shortcuts are used? Yes. Uncut Diamonds.
Also some routes that go throgh empty space are not fair. And in addition to short off-lane routes: Where are the bottlenecks in Omicron afk-cruising? Or in O9, O5, Cam afk-cruises?

- Trader activity will be focused on two routes mainly, whereas one is objectively worse than the other but an alternative for example if you only want to play in a single-ID group or consider one route too dangerous because of current pirate activity on the way.

Generally no problem with that, however: Make sure that a faction's main ore can go to the high selling point in reality.

IMG Niobium goes to a GMS base (no-dock rephack)
Same for BMM, I was told.
And I bet there are many more main ores that the main mining ID cannot sell to the high selling point.


Jack

[jammi]

Wow! These really are terrible changes, I can't even believe this thread is real in regards to mining getting so heavily slashed. I like the new sell points (although rip scrap metal, it was good for RP) but the biggest change is the worst here imo.

Karst and Co worked on some really good rebalanced prices that could have just been put in and that would have been the end of it. Why didn't that happen rather than this incredibly maverick solution being pushed?

Those fixes were a band aid, not a solution. They didn't address the mining mod's glaring system/mechanical issues, which these proposals do. What this proposal doesn't address well is pricing, and what it addresses atrociously is sellpoints. There's good and bad elements, and I'm pretty confident they can all be reconciled into something fantastic with a bit of feedback and revision.

[Miaou]

Can Gallia please have a viable sellpoint for Beryllium? I don't know how many times it's been requested by Gallic factions and even IMG. GMS specifically set up a mining operation there so it goes into Gallia. Why else would Gallia take over Tau-23. Beryl and Niobium should be top market in Gallia, or at least have a viable route.

[Jack_Henderson]

Can Gallia please have a viable sellpoint for Beryllium? I don't know how many times it's been requested by Gallic factions and even IMG. GMS specifically set up a mining operation there so it goes into Gallia. Why else would Gallia take over Tau-23. Beryl and Niobium should be top market in Gallia, or at least have a viable route.

+1 GMS really needs that selling point for Beryllium.

And please also make IMG-mined Niob sellable in Gallia (GRN or GRP base works - GMS does not).

Then Gallia can finally rp that they exploit the new resources in Sirius, and IMG can finally do the roleplay written in Gallic law which says that ore generally goes to Gallia (without a selling point, it's not possible again).

Make the Tau mining make sense please

Jack

[Moberg]

Updated OP
- Experimental higher profit rate, still slightly lower than current ores.
- Both lawful routes are main routes.
- Switched sources and routes around a bit.

[Shiki]

Way better now, thanks for fixes.

---

[Blodwyn O'Driscoll]

Now fields will have to be placed in fair locations, so that the participating parties have equal chances. Fields and NPC bases should be around roughly 30k from each other. E.g. Mollys in Dublin are kind of screwed now with the only field in Chester hole location. They have a mining bonus and no way in hell to reach any base if under attack (I'd guess 70+ k from next Molly base).

I must admit the minable field in Dublin is quite far away from Any Molly shelter... And of course, farther from the Coin.



And second, for unlawfull sell points, Kilrea is really a weird place to sell ore while in the same system lies Garvagh mining complex that harbours smelters and factories ( whereas, Kilrea is just a space colony, to simplify ).
Please, also do note that Garvagh is farthert away, in Londonderry, so prices might need some tweaking.

[Moberg]

The sellpoints are usually not refineries or factories, but rather places where the resources are gathered and then shipped to the appropriate facilities. Hence why I didn't choose Garvagh. Resources can be shipped there from Kilrea though, and to the shipyard or other bases as needed.

As for the distance to the next Molly station: That's something next on the list after the prices have gone live. Readjusting field locations within the system in general.

[Unlucky_Soul]

I dont see anything listed for the mining field in Penn, which would get 5k in planet muira in okinawa (forgot the name)

Has it been removed?or is it still the same?

---