The Order feedback

[Tommeh]

In that case, i have to agree with @"Nyx" and @Lythrilux . The Order is oficial faction just because of it's lore.

This doesn't make absolutely no sense, every faction is official faction cause of it's Lore, not cause some dude decided to make it so.
It's for sure not up to you to judge and decide which faction deserves offical status or not, so I don't see how this comment is releveant to anything discussed in here.

I had a pleasure to spectate how Order| caps flee away from NFZ around Freeport-11 if some Core logs in. That's... Discusting.

Why exactly is that disgusting?
Core does not respect FP 11 No Fire Zone if some ships carry Nomad contrand there and tend to shoot people there.
Order respects NFZ unless told otherwise by Zoners, and if they don't want to be part of some interaction happening there,
they have every right to leave the scene.
I don't want to be involved in some action and I leave, how can that be wrong.
Will I have to force myself to stay just so other parties aren't bored or what.
Poeple don't play her for others, they play for their own amusment, and although sometimes you have to think on others aswell, this is not the case.
And I am pretty sure this doesn't not happen often, probably you just witnessed one of rare moments.

edit: And just to reflect on rest of the discussion here.
I've been back to disco for past month or two, and playing in Order| actively for that period.
I did not witnessed a single case that Golanski told anyone not to interact with Core|.
We had several interactions with Core|, from events to random pews, last being one at FP 11when someone spamed Nomad npcs, Order| and Core| were together shooting Noms, and I didn't see anything wrong with Order/Core relations.

Nobody is griefing in Order| to avoid interactions with Core, I really didn't see any of it.
If I did, I would certainly tell Golanski or whoever would be doing it, to stop it, cause it's not the way for factions to interact.
I've been leading Order| for 2 years and had plenty of interactions and relations with then present Core faction.
It seems to me that Golanski and Lynth have some personal grudges which in some way reflect on faction relations, and they shouldn't be resolved over forums.

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[Kauket]

Why exactly is that disgusting?

Because they're logging off to /outright/ avoid interaction? Which was quite the case in the past. A lot. Or they wouldn't even bother at all. Nowadays, hopefully this isn't the case.

(Supposedly, the main reason as to why they didn't log: Core were better pvpers and 'ganked' - but that really isn't the case anymore-ish, concerning pvp. as for the ganks, eh. SOMETIMES there was too much, but they were mostly told to stood down.)

I've been back to disco for past month or two,

This happened for like, ages. It was at it's prime last summer. It's cooled down since October though.

I did not witnessed a single case that Golanski told anyone not to interact with Core|.

Happened during last year/summer.



You just happened to come back at a good (bad?) time to not witness it.

Anyway. Done here. This can't really be solved, so w/e.

[Lythrilux]

The subject of ganking is a petty one. X will 'gank' Y one day, Y will 'gank' X another day, both factions will provide justifications and things can go in a circle. At this point I just admit it happens, as have other Omicron factions. I don't mind getting ganked, as long as I have fun during it.

The same applies to losing fights. I don't really care about losing as long as I have fun. Fights are a dime a dozen so if you lose one day you can win another day etc. The problem with Golański is that he dislikes losing, takes it too close to heart and gets bitter about it - an attitude that would then spread to his members. I had offered solutions to get around this but he refused to be cooperative. It seems that if Golański isn't at the top, then no one can be. He has an ego that fuels some sort of delusion that he's king of the Omicrons and all must bow. Who cares about titles? This is a game. Let's have fun.

It seems to me that Golanski and Lynth have some personal grudges which in some way reflect on faction relations, and they shouldn't be resolved over forums.

Which brings me to this quote. The problem Tommeh is that no one can reach out to him anywhere BUT threads such as this. If you try to talk to Golański on Skype he either ignores you or blocks you. If the faction leaders of the Omicrons and the Dev team try to put Golański in a chat to help organise things, he'll cry that people have cooties and refuse to work with them before he immediately leaves it. People are trying to pull their weight to get things done and he'd rather nail things to the ground. And forum PMs are just completly ignored. As I stated, Leadership and his extreme stubbornness is the problem. I am not the only who believes this fact. I apologise if you are getting caught in crosshairs upon your return here.

If Golański wants things to get better he needs to reflect, be sincere and make the first move. I and others have tried many times, but it is irrelevant if Golly doesn't pull his weight. The so called "poor state of affairs" in the Omicrons? Order|, no, Golański, is fuelling it.

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[Vitoniz30]

Many times I've tried to avoid interactions with Core| pilots and just flee away, when I've seen them on scanners. Actually, I have a different reason (not carrying about losing in pvp, though most of Core| players have a better skill in fights, yes) - seeing The Core and The Order under on flag. I never liked this war, I always wanted to do everything possible for making friendly relations between Order, Core and other factions and I had fun, when I had cooperative actions with few Core| guys. Don't ask why - just understand and accept as correct thing.

[Tommeh]

The subject of ganking is a petty one. X will 'gank' Y one day, Y will 'gank' X another day, both factions will provide justifications and things can go in a circle. At this point I just admit it happens, as have other Omicron factions. I don't mind getting ganked, as long as I have fun during it.

The same applies to losing fights. I don't really care about losing as long as I have fun. Fights are a dime a dozen so if you lose one day you can win another day etc. The problem with Golański is that he dislikes losing, takes it too close to heart and gets bitter about it - an attitude that would then spread to his members. I had offered solutions to get around this but he refused to be cooperative. It seems that if Golański isn't at the top, then no one can be. He has an ego that fuels some sort of delusion that he's king of the Omicrons and all must bow. Who cares about titles? This is a game. Let's have fun.

It seems to me that Golanski and Lynth have some personal grudges which in some way reflect on faction relations, and they shouldn't be resolved over forums.

Which brings me to this quote. The problem Tommeh is that no one can reach out to him anywhere BUT threads such as this. If you try to talk to Golański on Skype he either ignores you or blocks you. If the faction leaders of the Omicrons and the Dev team try to put Golański in a chat to help organise things, he'll cry that people have cooties and refuse to work with them before he immediately leaves it. People are trying to pull their weight to get things done and he'd rather nail things to the ground. And forum PMs are just completly ignored. As I stated, Leadership and his extreme stubbornness is the problem. I am not the only who believes this fact. I apologise if you are getting caught in crosshairs upon your return here.

If Golański wants things to get better he needs to reflect, be sincere and make the first move. I and others have tried many times, but it is irrelevant if Golly doesn't pull his weight. The so called "poor state of affairs" in the Omicrons? Order|, no, Golański, is fuelling it.

I agree on the ganking issue, both sides will get ganked sooner or later, sometimes you can control it, sometimes you can't.
PVP engagements are part of this game, and should be accepted as such with no guarantee that it will be always fair fights.

Bust some poeple avoid interactions which will with no doubt end in pvp, and in those cases you simply can't forbid them not to do so.
It is their right to avoid something they do not wish to be part of, and I still don't see issue with it.
It's not Golanski telling them not to interact with Core in this case, it's not some third reason that originated from Golanski's grugdes or whatever it is.
It's simply how some people are, I've seen it in these past 2 months in Order| and there is nothing you can do about it, then to accept it. People interact based on their experience, and with time that experience can change.
As you seen yourself, Order| took part in every event organized around Omicrons with Core, Khara, Zoners, or whatever parties were there. In last event we were fairly outnumbered, and still went with it, some got killed fast, but eventually it was fun. He really wasn't concerned about who will take part or not.

I've been talking with Golanski on several occasions, and now really getting the other side of the story after reading your feedback and hearing his side.
It takes two for a fight, so in no doubt Core or even yourself as he claims carry part of guilt in this argue.
He acts on previous experience, and as I am told, Core did it's share of bad aswell.
Seeing your own feedback thread confirms that, you reject any complain that isn't regulated by the forms you made.
Simply put, you ignore any feedback that you don't agree with. So it's kind a hypocrite of you saying that Golanski is the one that never listens, while you are doing exactly the same. He's been in good relations with previous Core leaders as I am told, so I am asking myself is it really all his fault.

I know him quite a lot, I've been Order| leader when he was recruited into faction, and seen him rise from nothing to faction leader, and he always cooperated with many different people and parties without a problem.
I am not saying he is without a sin, but there is always the other side of the coin.
So, please don't bring everything on him, like he is some mastermind of evil that wants Omicrons to die out, and refuses to work with anyone. as I am fairly sure that is not the case.
He's been Order| leader for longer then you play on Discovery, so if it was such a problem with him only, Order| would crumble long time ago.
I think you two should just stay out of each other's way for everyone's good. Order and Core have been interacting good lately,
And afterall that's all that matters.
He says he will not go out of his way to actively grief Core|, and you should do the same.
Let the faction people act how they want regarding Order| Core interactions.
Right now I think that's the best solution as bringing up half year old grudges or memories isn't really helping anyone, so leave it behind.

That would be my input on this, and I won't reply anymore no matter what, as generally I find these feedback threads quite useless, cause 90 % of the time they aren't doing the job they are meant to.

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[Wesker]

Keep attending Zeta events, im usually on the Core side since im in Core| but if I see things getting too one sided I'll make an osiris. If Order| needs help/recommendations with capital ships (since thats where the ganking always happens imo) shoot me a pm I'd like to have huge cap fights in the omicrons again.

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[Flash™]

I'll log my Order| and gladly interact with anyone who wants to. Who wants first? (:

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[Wesker]

Flesh dai

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[Lythrilux]

I can undersstand @Vitoniz30's reasoning. I've actually literally had encounters with him in the past where he has expressed such attitudes in roleplay. This is quite unlike a similar event where an Order| cap silently ran to the system wall to flee from a Core ship. Later, expressed oorply via this thread we're told the ship had similar attitudes (not wanting to war with the Core). However this was not expressed inRP at the time and if I recall correctly the Order ship just fled silently. From our PoV that looked a lot like what Golly had said (in the past at least) for Order| ships to ignore Core| ships. According to the pilot the Captain of the ship had a quiet character and didn't talk much (sketchy, Lol?).

It is fair to state that I/Core may have a part in the turmoil and it's not fully on one party for blame (I still stand by Golański being more at fault though) however the crux of the issue is that from the Order| side of things nothing is owned up to (Core has yet to have an apology for the Dabadoru event, or when Golański interred with the RM/BDM/Core dealings in Rho via VWA) nor is there any cooperation to mend things from the leadership. It's all good if the members want to take part and do things, but when the leadership doesn't take an active role it really hampers progress.

In regards to our feedback thread I have simply streamlined the system to better access and understand the community's feedback and to filter it out from the spam or petty dribble and endless flaming that occurred in the previous thread. To tell me that I am doing it to ignore feedback is a bad observation. If a community member is respectful enough to use the thread rules to post feedback that tells me they have truly invested time into their post and it is fully deserving of my attention, thought and response as a leader. Other factions have similar systems and if the Order feedback thread did I would follow it. Hypocrisy would be to do as other leaders do and either ignore feedback entirely or simply not have a thread for feedback at all. I'd rather rise above school behaviors and listen to the community that I play with and nurture. I'm proud to say I haven't actually blocked anyone in the community, quit development chats over petty squabbles or refused to work with others when it is required. That is what separates Golański and I in regards to this topic. Furthermore you cannot refute the sort of responses and opinions that he has expressed regarding me personally throughout this thread - that should severely lower whatever doubt you may have that he is not at fault.

I also used to know Golański as a close friend but over the past year I also got to know his other side that is expressed when he does not have things attuned to how he wants. It's funny because I used to be ignorant of all his complaints (see: Order-Zoner drama that resulted in rephacks and sanctions). Now I know that his critics were justified in their opinions. I do not hate Omicron but I have grown to dislike the Golański persona. Order| is not crumbling, but (at least until fairly recently) I did begin to see it weakening somewhat and many Order indies were asking why Order| was not standing by them in Core engagements. Hopefully that is turning around, however on the mod development front things are entirely cold.

He says he will not go out of his way to grief Core? Let's see then, because so far I haven't been impressed. I do not grief with my faction, we simply play the game and get on with others when it is required. I suggest he does the same. For change to truly occur, he needs to drop his grudges. I - as well as other Omicron factions and Players - are waiting for him to do so. If he really wants things to improve, he can start by unblocking me on Skype and sending a PM. Or AT LEAST joining the Omicron Development chat again.

Still, I'd rather see things expressed with his own words. It doesn't instil faith that you have to make promises for him Tommeh whilst he keeps mute. I can understand why you might not find these threads helpful, however it is the only way to reach out.

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[Noraim]

As a side note to the dispute dying down, I'd like to follow-up with a question:

-Have any of you anything to add in regards to Order| as a whole, rather than the leader himself ?

I ask this in preparation as seeing the first step to resolve a problem is admitting there is one.

However, from what I've read so far, there's enough evidence smeared on the walls to either accuse and/or absolve both involved conflictees: @Omicron and @Lythrilux , with little to nothing else being said about the group.

I would have expected everyone to know a single post highlighting a problem would be enough, as opposed to clogging the thread with this dispute, unless I've been gone for too long and the Feedback threads serve that purpose also, instead of things like these being discussed in a chat or a different thread.

Bottom line, many think Golanski's the problem ? Okay. I don't think there's anyone here who didn't get that. So we'll work on it.

If there would be nothing else, I'd like to prevent disputes like these happening here or on any other feedback thread again, especially since they tend to end up having to be locked down by the "Elders".


Have a good one, ladies and gentlemen.