Patch 4.88.6 Capital Ship Primary Turrets Rebalance

[Sand_Spider]

Uh..

Did anyone else notice the Xeno Primary gunboat turret in that list?

[sindroms]

That is for their SRP gunboat.

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[Sand_Spider]

Ah! Is that Xing's ol' Liberty gunboat? Hadn't realized it's still around, if that's the case. If not.. *Goes hunting for a SRP story to read.*

[Antonio]

Why do the GRN BS primaries fall into the light category ? They do not follow the principle of the other guns that are meant for heavy BS's.
Also the RM and KNF primaries are very heavy even though they got a Battlecruiser, so this cant have been the deciding factor.
The GRN primaries wont drain much energy from a valor with full powercore as it stands if any at all.

The GRN BS prims are an oversight and will be fixed. RM and KNF primaries were balanced towards the most used capital ships in those houses - the Bismarck and Tokugawa. I understand battlecruisers can use them too, and Rheinland even has the Elbe, but they'll not benefit from these changes as much because they're looking for efficiency over dps. It's hard to balance around all 3 ships equally.

Taking away my hessian 3.2k range prims

Why

Look below. The Jorm doesn't have the problem of mentioned battleships and doesn't deserve 3.2k range. Not to mention it has an additional forward gun with no impactful disadvantages compared to other ships.

Seriously putting more range on dread prims with more damage is dumb. Dreads should have more damage but should'nt be made for fighting at longer ranges. As pointed out by gagadug they'll have more effiency too. Not a good idea but w/e more eking fun with my valor.


Rip dunkirks overlords and jorms lmao

The only reason they got a change is because of how range calculation works. Almost all battleships have prims somewhere close to the center. That makes big battleships lose effective range compared to smaller ones simply because of their size - the closest points between the two favors smaller ships. It's simple math, but I still made a lovely picture just for you.



A light battleship is on the left, while a heavy one is on the right. The start of the line inside the circle is the location of a primary turret mount, while the end of the line is where it hits the enemy ship. The green line is longer than the red one which makes bigger ships lose effective range. The 200 extra range simply compensates that. It's no "fighting at longer ranges" (it's a bonus of 200, not 1000+ for Christ's sake) nor does it impact smaller battleships that can use those guns (the Elbe for example) because of how inefficient they are and the inability to sustain them on a light core. The end result is pretty much the same (trading range and dps for sustained fire), and none of them are "more efficient" except the GRN one which, as I've mentioned, is getting fixed alongside the range (the Valor has its prims at the nose which is basically those 200m).

thats why i keep sayin there should be light-standart and heavy variants of primary turrets but whoo keers? no one
now they trying to balance weapons by looking at ships

There's really no need. This is just nitpicking. Making a lighter version of, say, Rheinland primaries would make them tricky to balance towards the Bismarck because of the potential to not lose core while shooting 4 consistently. The second alternative which is adding plugins to restrict certain guns on certain ships isn't going to happen for such specific and redundant changes. Really, try to use the new Rheinland prims on the Elbe. You'll live.

[Black Widow]

Why do the GRN BS primaries fall into the light category ? They do not follow the principle of the other guns that are meant for heavy BS's.
Also the RM and KNF primaries are very heavy even though they got a Battlecruiser, so this cant have been the deciding factor.
The GRN primaries wont drain much energy from a valor with full powercore as it stands if any at all.

The GRN BS prims are an oversight and will be fixed. RM and KNF primaries were balanced towards the most used capital ships in those houses - the Bismarck and Tokugawa. I understand battlecruisers can use them too, and Rheinland even has the Elbe, but they'll not benefit from these changes as much because they're looking for efficiency over dps. It's hard to balance around all 3 ships equally.

Taking away my hessian 3.2k range prims

Why

Look below. The Jorm doesn't have the problem of mentioned battleships and doesn't deserve 3.2k range. Not to mention it has an additional forward gun with no impactful disadvantages compared to other ships.

Seriously putting more range on dread prims with more damage is dumb. Dreads should have more damage but should'nt be made for fighting at longer ranges. As pointed out by gagadug they'll have more effiency too. Not a good idea but w/e more eking fun with my valor.


Rip dunkirks overlords and jorms lmao

The only reason they got a change is because of how range calculation works. Almost all battleships have prims somewhere close to the center. That makes big battleships lose effective range compared to smaller ones simply because of their size - the closest points between the two favors smaller ships. It's simple math, but I still made a lovely picture just for you.



A light battleship is on the left, while a heavy one is on the right. The start of the line inside the circle is the location of a primary turret mount, while the end of the line is where it hits the enemy ship. The green line is longer than the red one which makes bigger ships lose effective range. The 200 extra range simply compensates that. It's no "fighting at longer ranges" (it's a bonus of 200, not 1000+ for Christ's sake) nor does it impact smaller battleships that can use those guns (the Elbe for example) because of how inefficient they are and the inability to sustain them on a light core. The end result is pretty much the same (trading range and dps for sustained fire), and none of them are "more efficient" except the GRN one which, as I've mentioned, is getting fixed alongside the range (the Valor has its prims at the nose which is basically those 200m).

thats why i keep sayin there should be light-standart and heavy variants of primary turrets but whoo keers? no one
now they trying to balance weapons by looking at ships

There's really no need. This is just nitpicking. Making a lighter version of, say, Rheinland primaries would make them tricky to balance towards the Bismarck because of the potential to not lose core while shooting 4 consistently. The second alternative which is adding plugins to restrict certain guns on certain ships isn't going to happen for such specific and redundant changes. Really, try to use the new Rheinland prims on the Elbe. You'll live.

Your argument fails for the GRN and Council Battleships as both have primaries on the front thus with this increased range of 3200m. You have extended their range beyond the reach of any light / medium bs. So for the Overlord / Dunkirk it will mean certain death as gallia will have a 200m headstart.

Since this buff is for heavy battleships that have primaries in the centre, I think for Gallic battleships the range should be reverted to 3000m for balance sake.

[Antonio]

Your argument fails for the GRN and Council Battleships as both have primaries on the front thus with this increased range of 3200m. You have extended their range beyond the reach of any light / medium bs. So for the Overlord / Dunkirk it will mean certain death as gallia will have a 200m headstart.

Since this buff is for heavy battleships that have primaries in the centre, I think for Gallic battleships the range should be reverted to 3000m for balance sake.

and none of them are "more efficient" except the GRN one which, as I've mentioned, is getting fixed alongside the range (the Valor has its prims at the nose which is basically those 200m).

I got you covered. Good that you mentioned the Redemption as well though.

[Crossroads]

thats why i keep sayin there should be light-standart and heavy variants of primary turrets but whoo keers? no one
now they trying to balance weapons by looking at ships

There's really no need. This is just nitpicking. Making a lighter version of, say, Rheinland primaries would make them tricky to balance towards the Bismarck because of the potential to not lose core while shooting 4 consistently. The second alternative which is adding plugins to restrict certain guns on certain ships isn't going to happen for such specific and redundant changes. Really, try to use the new Rheinland prims on the Elbe. You'll live.

What about another civilian/generic gun with stats leaning toward DPS end of spectrum? This way the player have more customization in their loadout. Currently the varied stats doesn't mean much when you can only choose between your faction guns and basics, plus factions with high DPS guns have the advantage of being able to choose between DPS (their faction gun) or efficiency (basics).
(btw Bismarck can equip four basics and almost not lose core while shooting 4 consistently)

[Black Widow]

thats why i keep sayin there should be light-standart and heavy variants of primary turrets but whoo keers? no one
now they trying to balance weapons by looking at ships

There's really no need. This is just nitpicking. Making a lighter version of, say, Rheinland primaries would make them tricky to balance towards the Bismarck because of the potential to not lose core while shooting 4 consistently. The second alternative which is adding plugins to restrict certain guns on certain ships isn't going to happen for such specific and redundant changes. Really, try to use the new Rheinland prims on the Elbe. You'll live.

What about another civilian/generic gun with stats leaning toward DPS end of spectrum? This way the player have more customization in their loadout. Currently the varied stats doesn't mean much when you can only choose between your faction guns and basics, plus factions with high DPS guns have the advantage of being able to choose between DPS (their faction gun) or efficiency (basics).
(btw Bismarck can equip four basics and almost not lose core while shooting 4 consistently)

Basics were nerfed with the energy usage increased on par with faction primaries. So they are not as efficient as they used to be.

[Black Widow]

Your argument fails for the GRN and Council Battleships as both have primaries on the front thus with this increased range of 3200m. You have extended their range beyond the reach of any light / medium bs. So for the Overlord / Dunkirk it will mean certain death as gallia will have a 200m headstart.

Since this buff is for heavy battleships that have primaries in the centre, I think for Gallic battleships the range should be reverted to 3000m for balance sake.

and none of them are "more efficient" except the GRN one which, as I've mentioned, is getting fixed alongside the range (the Valor has its prims at the nose which is basically those 200m).

I got you covered. Good that you mentioned the Redemption as well though.

So you'll be reverting their range back to 3000m?

Yes. -Antonio

[Antonio]

This is in btw. Also, not realy related but all battleship flaks got their energy consumption reduced by roughly 30% per shot.

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