(01-11-2017, 12:27 PM)xiphos Wrote: Hm. Don't you think that the POB's are good for Rheinland? I mean, a lot of traders and miners are doing something for them. Which is good for the RHA, so they can log their ships to hunt them down? But it looks like that is not the RP of the RHA these days. Fair enough. I see the the Red Hessians a bit different.
If I taxed every PoB at once and blew them all up (which believe me I could) there would be no traders left in Rheinland. Think about it, the extortion has more value than killing the base, I'd much rather extort the base for years than have it say no and have to blow it up (with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 bases during my time playing). This also addresses your reply to my comment on nassau, I could go tax it now yes. But coordinating a siege of that magnitude would take time and effort I can't be bothered to give right now. [/quote]
Quote:You did not claim anything inRP i think. But you claim that the RHA is able to destroy a Base at Planet New Berlin. With a Jorm fleet.
Not a Jorm fleet, but a group (maybe a small fleet) of RHA ships which imo is possible inrp. Doesn't mean they're all jorms, a single jorm inrp would be capable of torching any base in rheinland that isnt a bismarck.
Quote:The question is not dumb trap bait. But valid. An unlawful fleet sitting at New Berlin to siege a base is crap inRP. You can have PVP or RP interactions like this in Dresden, Omega 7, Omega 11. And yes. Mostly unlawfuls aren't nice people. And that's how it should work. We need dirty angry pirates and we need the cuddly ones like you like to call them. But i am referring to a possible POB siege at a Capital Planet of a house. With an ooRP fleet.
I also don't expect an angry unlawful player to tell me something about his live for hours. But i don't want to hear the same lame excuses almost any PVP orientated unlawful player is coming up with again and again. "My RP is only shooting. I don't care if you like that or not." Don't get me wrong here. I expect a Red Hessian to shoot me in a Daumann Miner. But i expect atleast a few lines of RP.
New Berlin is a big part of our ZoI dresden is right next door, I don't see the issue and I haven't come across many others who have a huge issue with it either. Every unlawful and lawful faction pulls this sort of stunt.
We do RP with traders, I spread propaganda as much as I spread piracy, even when I do pirate I have a few lines I drop after I extort the person for propaganda purposes.
Quote:Don't know Zayne. But i know Aerelm and Blodo. They did a great job to keep it fair and balanced. Not always maybe. It's not always possible to keep it fair. You can't please everyone. You will always find someone being angry becuase he died. But they didn't show up with 15+ Jorm fleet in New Berlin as i far as i know. Another example is the ]bd[ faction. They didn't show up with a lol Togo fleet in New Tokyo just for the sake of PVP or RP interactions. I don't have problems with events where both sides agree on the terms. But this one is one-sided. I know it is not your fault that there is no RM. But yeah. I don't think it is much of a fair play to extort POB owners without any effort just because you can ooRP.
I hate to break it too you, but PoB sieges have never been fair. PoB sieges bring out the colorful side in everyone, people play ruthlessly and it wont change with the current game mechanics. ]bd[ might have been glowing angels with fairplay but I have seen BD| mass hordes of togos for sieges in kepler and other systems. Same goes for the Order, Core, GRN, etc.
(01-11-2017, 01:30 PM)Laura C. Wrote: To add more opinion/feedback, I am quite confused to read this. Can you elaborate about the lore you refering to? I mean if you finally want to be real freedom fighters against establishment again and not Rheinland version of Liberty Rogues which just extort and spread terror, I am all for it.
But you should apply it to everything then. You claim you don´t pirate traders for the sake of lore and because you don´t want to kill trading. That sounds nice and responsible, however first, I don´t think that reasonable piracy can kill trading (though if you want to switch to voluntary donations, go for it), and second - why is not same attitude applied to POBs then? You don´t want to extort traders but in the same time you extort every single POB you are able to find regardless of who the owner is. For quite some time, your "roleplay" towards all POBs is mostly just "50milordai", with two exceptions of "75milordai" and "200milordai". There were little to no attempts to try anything more even towards neutral bases. I am glad RHA moved from killing bases without even talking to owner like it displayed with the Zoner bases in O-7, however it would be nice to see more than just extortion, especially when it comes to neutral Freelancer POBs. For example, how about asking owner to supply RHA with some commodities they have problem to obtain, instead of just "pay or die"? You can save that for Kruger and Daumann because those won´t and can´t support you.
RHA takes a turn from being just explicitly pirates to being actual revolutionaries but still somewhat pirates. You'll notice RHA doesn't target freelancers or IC or IMG or GMG traders coming in through Rheinland frequently because we don't directly oppose or care about them inrp enough to do so or we're allied. OORPly like I said I don't want trading in Rheinland to completely die. I've turned RHA into the more villainous "join us or die" absolutest attitude because inrp that's how unlawfuls and more radical revolutionaries (like the RHA) in general work. During the french revolution the revolutionaries killed the loyalist supporters in droves both before and after the revolution. They were radicals, thats essentially how I've viewed RHA. The piracy part is targeted against their rivals (daumann, Kruger, Brets, etc) because a. they're are main inrp rivals and b. it serves to spread the whole "submission through fear" attitude which is how radical unlawful RP would work imo.
We aren't rogues, we don't shoot every single thing that moves, but we certainly aren't clean idealogical revolutionaries like the VWA, by the sound of your words in the initial paragraph you sound like you want RHA to be more like the VWA which wont happen.
PoBs are different, is building a base in a mining feild different than one trader flying into a mining feild to mine? I think it is. Extorting and killing PoBs is done to make inrp statements like "we don't mess around and we are real here". If we were dead in rheinland and only fought in Dresden against RM like clean ideological revolutionaries what reason would other lawful factions have to take us seriously? Not only that, but contrary to popular belief I am more soft on Freelancer and junker PoBs in the omegas, I made a dead with a junker base owner to only take less than half the amount i extort from regular PoBs and I've begun extorting more from Daumann and Kruger bases.
So yes, its a way of marking our territory inrp and letting are enemies know we exist and we're a force not to be reckoned with. If I was soft and let PoBs in NB or Stuttgart slide, then people would get comfortable and start building them in Omega-11 or dresden.
Quote:The crucial different is that common raid does not make permanent damage. People fight, die, make sandwich, relog and move on because nothing was lost. Thus in this case it is okay to sacrifice little of RP logic because it helps to create activity. POBs are different story, their destruction is permanent damage and consequently it means also killing activity because players usually won´t try to build it again and often move elsewhere.
With the amount of money base owners make (which is in the billions mind you) building another PoB is easy as cake. The ones that have a hard time are the core 1 FL owners usually. I do speak to most of the owners before I blow up the bases. As I've stated before, I've been a bit more soft to the them for the reasons you've stated above.
Quote:So would it affect RHA´s activity really that much if you would exempt literally one area in whole Rheinland from POB killing, especially when it corresponds with basic roleplay settings? After all, things are always about compromise and official factions are expected to have reasonable self-restrictions as they should have higher standards than just basic "I can do everything what rules do not forbid". For example lawfuls are expected to not camp unlawful bases because inRP they don´t know where they are. Everyone knows it´s bad to do it and if it happens, faction leaders are expected to teach members they should not do it.
As much as I'd like to believe that Omega-7 is popular and dresden and stuttgart are, they aren't. If you bring up the argument of "well you have the corsairs in omega-5 to shoot" then I'd tell you to try shooting sheildrunning centurions in an asteroid field for 12 hours while being shot by 5 razor gunboats 3 cruisers and a legate with razors. I hate to break it to you, but using all of RHA's ZOI is something I wont stop doing.
Quote:Thus, would be that much of an issue for you to let POBs in the vicinity of capital planet off the RHA´s reach because inRP that area is heavily defended and Hessians do not have enough forces to operate there (not to mention risking significant part of assets for very little gain as destruction of said base gives Hessians nothing and economic damages for the establishment are very minor)? Is really 50 (or 75) million credits per month important for you to point where you rather throw even basic roleplay logic out of the window to get it? Especially when you yourself said you care about trading Rheinland and you will benefit from it too as POBs help trading activity. Not all of them of course, but some of them does, remember Solitaire when it belonged Xenon for example. Also, if there will be no ore storages, traders will go trade ores from other places and thus play elsewhere, not to mention mining activity which will be reduced as well.
I've basically repeated my opinion on this argument of "basic RP logic" with operating near planets before, so I wont repeat it again. I do care about trading in Rheinland, am I going to blow up any of those bases I just taxed? No because they paid up, its a lot easier if you just pay the fee. It's not hard to maintain through trading and managing ores that are delivered and bought from your PoB. SMH has done it for almost 5 months now and they are neither official nor have a high core PoB nor have a lot of members.
(01-11-2017, 02:45 PM)Wesker Wrote: If I taxed every PoB at once and blew them all up (which believe me I could) there would be no traders left in Rheinland. Think about it, the extortion has more value than killing the base, I'd much rather extort the base for years than have it say no and have to blow it up (with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 bases during my time playing). This also addresses your reply to my comment on nassau, I could go tax it now yes. But coordinating a siege of that magnitude would take time and effort I can't be bothered to give right now.
You did three tax threads. I guess one more wouldn't be a problem? I use a qoute from you "which believe me i could". And i know the extortion has more value because one have almost nothing to do for the money. Easy profits.
(01-11-2017, 02:45 PM)Wesker Wrote: Not a Jorm fleet, but a group (maybe a small fleet) of RHA ships which imo is possible inrp. Doesn't mean they're all jorms, a single jorm inrp would be capable of torching any base in rheinland that isnt a bismarck.
Well. A little fleet inRP yes. Maybe. But you show up with 10 or 15+ Jorms to destroy a base at a Capital Planet. Or is your intention to siege that base with less than 10 Jorms? Because just because you can pop up in New Berlin with 15+ jorms doesn't mean it is justified in RP.
(01-11-2017, 02:45 PM)Wesker Wrote: New Berlin is a big part of our ZoI dresden is right next door, I don't see the issue and I haven't come across many others who have a huge issue with it either. Every unlawful and lawful faction pulls this sort of stunt.
We do RP with traders, I spread propaganda as much as I spread piracy, even when I do pirate I have a few lines I drop after I extort the person for propaganda purposes.
Are we still talking about POB sieges at Capital Planet's? Because it looks like we don't. So can you give me examples of an official faction doing a POB siege at other Capital Planet's? Other than Zayne's RHA example? Because right i only see the RHA is doing "stunts" like this. I only remember the thing at Planet Manhattan weeks ago. With Long Island or whatever the POB's name there is. Wasn't an official faction though?
(01-11-2017, 02:45 PM)Wesker Wrote: I hate to break it too you, but PoB sieges have never been fair. PoB sieges bring out the colorful side in everyone, people play ruthlessly and it wont change with the current game mechanics. ]bd[ might have been glowing angels with fairplay but I have seen BD| mass hordes of togos for sieges in kepler and other systems. Same goes for the Order, Core, GRN, etc.
You don't need to hate anything. I know how broken the whole POB concept still is. And don't get me wrong here. I don't mind POB's getting destroyed. But it's simple. If you don't have the numbers inRP you are not able to destroy a POB. I wouldn't go to Planet Manhattan with a Rogues fleet to siege a POB just because i have the numbers ooRP. Or with the Corsairs to Planet Malta. Even with the numbers the GRN has inRP i would hate it when they start to siege the bases at Planet New London. But maybe that's just me.
And i didn't say anything about the ]bd[ being glowing angels. Again. I don't have problems with the RHA attacking POB's in Border systems like Omega 7. The time to respond for the Military to defend a base outthere would be long enough for the a fleet to hit and maybe destroy a base inRP i guess. Or for the KNF/LN to bring stuff to Kepler to defend a lawful base against a Togo fleet there. Not that a huge Togo fleet makes any sense at all. I am still talking about a siege at Planet New Berlin.
Our Lore/infopage has recieved -quite- an update after being outdated for some time, several more additions to the RHA infopage will be coming soon. Thanks to @Shelco our newest HC member and the rest of the HC for helping with this.
That being said, you're all probably going to notice the bbcode flaw with the table at the bottom, if anyone is good with bbcode and thinks they can fix it please pm me ( @Wesker ) because I am terrible with bbcode, and although he is majoring in coding [s]hes the worst coder ever cant even fix our info page #worstHCmember2017[s] Zayne cant fix it either ( <3 )
(01-18-2017, 09:43 PM)SkyNet Wrote: Stolen from the BDM info page. How nice of you.
Hmm? The floating tables are a common thing I've seen in almost every lore/ bounty board I've seen. The Rep sheet and ship line parts were typed up by @Shelco who is also in BDM, I asked him to talk to you about it, hopefully you can work something out. If it still really continues to bother you I'll make changes later on since they do look similar.
![[Image: P6DLUCr.png?4]](https://i.imgur.com/P6DLUCr.png?4)
![[Image: AX5RcTh.png?4]](https://i.imgur.com/AX5RcTh.png?4)
![[Image: maYSx8o.png]](https://i.imgur.com/maYSx8o.png)
