(04-16-2017, 09:03 PM)Thunderer Wrote: I'm fine with battleships as they are. I wouldn't really mind reverting Cerberus range to 3.5K. I don't think that it would change the situation notably, except that it would make battleship combat even shorter and POB sieges easier. I would definitely love to see House Cerberuses, though.
PS: And yes, some heavy battleships need a buff. The Valor, the Redemption, the Tokugawa and the Marduk are fine. Others, although they are somewhat capable of winning against a lighter battleship, can do nothing against a cruiser that has a light mortar. They can be hit from maximum range, and they can't hit back. A BIsmarck, for example, is quite fun to fly against other battleships as it is a challenge, a manageable one though, but I replaced mine with an Elbe because it was useless against such cruisers.
Actually Cerbs were your thing so I dont get the whole if they were back or not wouldnt make a difference thing. Thats crap, Cerbs were nerfed for dumb reasons and those people who used cerbs at range now use primes in exactly same way. So removing cerbs has done nothing to change PVP, if primaries were removed aswell then you would see the bs dynamic change altogether.
But they wont so bring them back I say, the sooner the frkin better.
i would agree that cap ships need work. if this is something that devs are willing to look into then i will post more on what i would like to see changed.
i have not much experience with BS. the only one i have is a neph. You can kill everything thats bigger than you. sounds fine. as long as your are not the biggest(loooooser;-). one ore two good bombas can kill you. gb, cruisers, bc, lBS, mBS, hBS. only a marduk is bigger.
buff the neph. please
Black widow, Seeing you play, and how you play
you do nothing but buttcloak players after 2 or 3 lines, one example here: http://imgur.com/a/E9NuG , and have not made an attempt to even try the current meta of gameplay, and you constantly complain when people use nothing but mortars against you, and you don't even try to adapt. Your input is only to benefit your butt cloaking habits so far, unless ingame you begin to prove the community wrong.
(04-17-2017, 01:26 AM)DeadeyeBlades Wrote: i would agree that cap ships need work. if this is something that devs are willing to look into then i will post more on what i would like to see changed.
You have had little experience with capital ships right now, the topic of this is primarily battleship Cerberus turrets, cerbs of that BS class not lower. What you like may seem radical when you notice you actually dont have much experience in capital ships of the current meta or past meta.
(04-17-2017, 01:37 AM)realekki Wrote: i have not much experience with BS. the only one i have is a neph. You can kill everything thats bigger than you. sounds fine. as long as your are not the biggest(loooooser;-). one ore two good bombas can kill you. gb, cruisers, bc, lBS, mBS, hBS. only a marduk is bigger.
buff the neph. please
The Nephilm irp is not a war ship, it is an exploration colonisation ship if i remember correctly,
Although i do agree, in its current state, it might been a buff if the devs want it to be used for combat.
Sorry for my critique widow and DeadeyeBlades, But i had to bring this up.
Just to clarify, I am for the old style of long range cerb combat
I have some more cents to put into this. About 10 cents.
I must be honest, I believe a vote should be held about this. This view of buffing cerbs is something a lot of people agree with, I'd actually argue that over half of the community would want them buffed. So, a vote would be in order. I say if the majority of players want this, it should happen. Now, I may be wrong here. (Correct me if I'm wrong) But I'd argue most of the devs who wanted this nerf must've not played much caps, because if you did, at least so I've heard, you'd be angry they got nerfed. Reason being is, cerbs were a weapon of defense for heavies to hit medium bs's at a longer range without having to equip trebuchet's or mortars (at least that's my intake on it). All the people I know who played back then are angry with the nerf. So, if you were for it, you most likely didn't play heavies much, or any caps to be honest. Cerbs fit into combat perfectly, and then they got taken out, leaving a gap, which has caused many players to abandon caps. I wish I could play in a cap battle with many players in one system, with nobody complaining if they lose or win.. But alas, that won't happen. With cerbs gone, everyone left. There is no one left to complain about losing.
Maybe people would come back to caps, maybe. If a vote was held for them to be reverted, along with other guns being reverted to their originals, the populous would rejoice. If the vote wins, try the guns out. If the battles don't work, and things go crazy, then revert it to 1600m cerbs. But give them a chance.
regarding the neph, yeah its a colony ship with the ability to fight maybe a marduk but nothing smaller.
give the neph the ability to kill every smaller ship. its a zoner ship. not allowed to attack by id.
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(04-16-2017, 08:48 PM)sasapinjic Wrote:
(04-16-2017, 12:15 PM)Antonio Wrote: The thread sounds way too dramatic for essentially complaining about two things (battleship cerbs & heavy battleships in general).
(04-15-2017, 09:39 PM)Wesker Wrote: The reason being is simple, ever since 4.87, all the cruiser and gunboat rebalance changes (aside from the removal of cruiser razors), where terrible.
This statement alone is so wrong it makes me question if we play the same game. I hear this "cruisers are bad" meme all of a sudden although the class itself didn't receive any major changes for at least a year apart from inter-class balancing and removal of razors. Saying "they're bad" after always being a solid ship class that could fight anything and everything in any scenario is bollocks. You might argue they received a nerf with the inter balancing because old Crecy and Typhoon shenanigans are gone, but in no world are cruisers "useless". As an example - I barely played disco in the past 3 months, but just a few days ago I logged my Scylla in Omega 3 and single handedly held 2 Dunkirks alone with CD support from snubs. And no, I didn't shoot mortars only at max range, I went in the danger zone and exchanged prim fire. I survived just fine and even managed to snipe a few bombers with mortars. Only later another Vidar joined when they were dying already to finish the job. Complaining they're useless is completely unwarranted and wrong.
At 4.87, Cruisers had 2k range on prims & cerbs while battleships had ~1.8k range on secondaries. The end result was awful - cruisers sitting at max range spamming prims without taking any damage in return. It was no surprise that a lone cruiser could take down a battleship without losing its shield. With the ranges being swapped, you actually have to work for your kills. I agree, flying a cruiser has become harder, but if anything that makes it more enjoyable when you manage to win a fight because of how well you kept that ideal range and took as minimal damage as possible while dishing out your entire core and Ferrari-ing in time. That in no way makes them "useless", and if anything questions how many cruiser aces we have left. "Caps require no skill" memes aside, there's a lot of small things you need to pay attention to when in a cruiser, the most notable one being keeping the perfect range between you and the target.
As for the changes they received, calling all of them "terrible" would basically say ships like the Typhoon, Scylla, Kudessie, etc. shouldn't have been changed. Stop for a second and tell me you're joking. Inter-class balancing doesn't change the way that class acts against other classes, period. Feel free to look at the list of cruiser changes and tell me if "all of them are terrible" again. Pretty surprising, after receiving so much positive feedback about the changes in general. Hell, I even remember going through the list with you on skype and you nodding your head or if you didn't, I explained everything in detail to you, just to see you suddenly change your opinion.
Gunboats received a lot of changes, but again - saying "all of them were terrible" is not only disrespectful to the people doing them, but also flat out wrong and you know it. Apart from inter-class balancing (which, again, doesn't change the way they fight other classes), they got their guns & shield changed a lot. Perhaps the cerberus nerf was too much given that it has double the dispersion now, but from what I've heard they're getting buffed anyways. Shield nerf/separation into 3 classes was long overdue, and there shouldn't be any surprises about that. The prims not taking any core were balanced properly and if anything it enabled you to mount two extra razors or pulses and get away with it because of the DPS buff they received, while not draining the core too much (example - 4 prims 2 pulses before and 4 prims 2 pulses now, you're better off with the latter because of the extra damage, while 4 prims don't drain the core that much as 6 prims would). The core of gunboats is still unchanged. They're still undisputably the most versatile class in the game.
Now for a bit less of a rant post. Battleships were very close to getting a major update regarding unique weapons which'd not only make them a lot more appealing (the beautiful effects from @Titan) but also buff heavier ones. Couple that with the cerb buff, and you'd have a whole new mechanic of battleship fights. Sadly, Titan retracted the whole concept and didn't want it in the game, so it wasn't implemented. Couple that with balance team being a mess it is, it's clear why it's not in. It's a shame really, because it's all here waiting for someone to put it in. @Durandal, the reason why people want the cerbs back is simple - they realise how bad heavy battleships are at the moment (arguably the worst subclass in the game) and are looking for ways to make them stronger. What comes to mind first? Things that already existed and people got familiar with them and/or are very easy to implement and play around with. What fits both criterias? 3.5k range cerbs. There's no real disadvantage to bringing them back at this point, and they can always be reverted since the change literally takes 5 minutes. Putting house cerbs in would also help.
Another thing that was well mentioned was missiles. What doesn't care about the battleship size/manouverability? Missiles and beams. The latter is probably never getting in because of how it'd interact with smaller classes (3000 m/s guns vs snubs), but the former has a lot of potential. Vertical missile was already one of the new unique battleship weapons that were supposed to be implemented, but I wouldn't mind seeing all the missiles reworked to be very good. After all, they can always be CMed or CDed and sometimes flaked away, so they'd have to be -very- good, and it'd be a buff to heavy battleships since the projectile itself doesn't care about how big or small you are (within the battleship class), while they can take a lot more pure damage.
Tl;dr Yes, buff heavy battleships (via bringing old cerbs back as one of the options), but don't talk nonsense about cruisers and gunboats.
I am fine with part of Capital changes that balanced them in they own classes , as well for BS loosing bits for hull buff .
What i do care is BS loose/got heavily nerfed mayor weapons like Cerberus and Missiles , as well as flak power double nerf and energy consumption increased , and they are stuck with mortars and prims only ( basics prims nerfed as well ) , which for large ones is death sentence . 5 nerfs for one ship class, is not not much ?
Cruisers are fine by their stats , but they lose razors , only thing that have small chance to get rid of pesky snub ( and to snac funboats to ) , now none of capitals have not a single weapon against snubs , while bombers not only still has deadly long range novas and snacs , to safely range kill all , they also get new toys .
I wouldn't call missiles in current state a nerf. The old ones did hull damage, yes, but also had only 20 ammo, 20 second cooldown and crazy high energy consumption. There was almost no point in using them. Now it's a great way for heavy battleships to deshield light ones quickly and consistently, if the missile doesn't get destroyed on the way. Plus, it messes up the other guy's aim as it's travelling which makes people tilt. Besides, the only reason why they're EMP only is because of vanilla ships and their interaction with missiles. Until those get redone, and it's been mentioned multiple times, bringing back hull damage versions would mess things up more than what they are now.
Flaks got a buff, not a nerf. I don't know where you're getting that info from.
As for your constant "I'm useless against snubs on my cap" whining, I'd bet on my life that in no situation you used an anti-snub loadout. Had you used it, you wouldn't even think of crying about "being useless against snubs". Solaris cruisers or razor battleships are still a huge threat to anything smaller than a cruiser, and are the absolute best way to deal with them. Try it out sometimes, you can't have a loadout that's the best against everything. I can personally tell you I've seen people razor multiple snubs on their battleships (hello Thunderer) as well as dry bombers quickly with solarises or instakill with a mortar.
I see almost all cap-whores posting here about good and less good reasons, but with obvious passion to cerbs in their hearts.
Wtf you need reasons for? It's a game, ffs. Just tell devs you want damn cerbs back. It is their DUTY to make you happy. In case they have no time to make you happy, then pls step back and let others go in and do the freakin' job. Why is every dev so afraid to pick a young apprentice from the crowd, show him some tricks and leave to have a rest?
But... don't expect massive battles just because YOU will get what you want. Only getting and keeping new players can do it.
(04-16-2017, 09:03 PM)Thunderer Wrote: The Valor, the Redemption, the Tokugawa and the Marduk are fine.
not really.
The Valor is the best anti-cap battleship in the mod with the best armament in the mod. I have had more success with my Valor than with any other battleship so far. The Redemption doesn't fight any light battleships, and the only medium one it does is the Sarissa, which is as large as a heavy, but with worse stats. Although lacking vs cruisers, the Redemption is the only BS that can tank a Valor besides a Marduk. The Marduk has overpowered armament, shots that are harder to see, and a permanent cloak. The Tokugawa is almost as narrow as a Dunkirk, which you said could dodge cerberuses at 1.5K. The Tokugawa has much more armour, energy and turrets, though.
(04-17-2017, 04:16 AM)realekki Wrote: regarding the neph, yeah its a colony ship with the ability to fight maybe a marduk but nothing smaller.
give the neph the ability to kill every smaller ship. its a zoner ship. not allowed to attack by id.
It would be such an irony, buffing a ship's offensive capabilities because it is not allowed to attack
Dev: Hey Zoner! Look at all these shiny turrets you have!
Zoner: Yay!
Dev: You can't use any of them, though.
(04-16-2017, 09:03 PM)Thunderer Wrote: The Valor, the Redemption, the Tokugawa and the Marduk are fine.
not really.
The Valor is the best anti-cap battleship in the mod with the best armament in the mod. I have had more success with my Valor than with any other battleship so far. The Redemption doesn't fight any light battleships, and the only medium one it does is the Sarissa, which is as large as a heavy, but with worse stats. Although lacking vs cruisers, the Redemption is the only BS that can tank a Valor besides a Marduk. The Marduk has overpowered armament, shots that are harder to see, and a permanent cloak. The Tokugawa is almost as narrow as a Dunkirk, which you said could dodge cerberuses at 1.5K. The Tokugawa has much more armour, energy and turrets, though.
Valor was great, its bad now can't survive in fleet fights too
Tokugawa still not good enough to beat Togo