Merging AU8 into hulls by default

[Goliath]

If your complaint is about lesser armor upgrades being useless (which they are), here is a solution - I have talked to Cameron previously about making the AUs have a mass, so they affect ship maneuverability and handling. This way, some people will excell with the weaker AUs while others will do better with the heavier ones.

Light Fighters would become completely useless as their only advantage is the maneuverability and handling +speed. Slowing it more than they are right now would completely compromise the class.

A few more examples:

Titan - it is already a moving brick. I honestly don't want to see it worse than a freighter in maneuverability.

Sabre - It would basically become the original Titan

Heavy Fighters - they would become literal VHFs with weaker hull, which is not looking good in my eyes.

Battleships - they are already incredibly slow in turn rate. Is it really needed to slow the ship even more?

Crusiers/ BCs - their only advantage against larger ships is agility. Take that and you'll make them smaller Battleships with more disatvantages than it is susposed to be.

I think you get the idea.


Now, maybe buffing the other armors are a good idea. And making them expensive (+20%) as Shelco said.
I

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[Reddy]

If your complaint is about lesser armor upgrades being useless (which they are), here is a solution - I have talked to Cameron previously about making the AUs have a mass, so they affect ship maneuverability and handling. This way, some people will excell with the weaker AUs while others will do better with the heavier ones.

+1

[Thyrzul]

If your complaint is about lesser armor upgrades being useless (which they are), here is a solution - I have talked to Cameron previously about making the AUs have a mass, so they affect ship maneuverability and handling. This way, some people will excell with the weaker AUs while others will do better with the heavier ones.

This over merging AUs into the hull.

Regarding newbie aid, I'd rather see an elaborate ingame help system for educating them (tutorial buoys are a start) before any gameplay changes that would not only affect them but all of us.

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[Karst]

Setting up a fighter is already laughably cheap; a 20 minute ore run gives you enough cash for two. Vets that don't invest in cap ships already have very little reason to trade, we don't want to reduce that even further - and that's before considering the cheaper AUs and HauI, which aren't even much less effective than AUVIII.

Also, if a player is so new that they don't know to buy armor, getting that hull bonus automatically probably won't help much. They'll get annihilated regardless.

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[Toris]

Setting up a fighter is already laughably cheap; a 20 minute ore run gives you enough cash for two. Vets that don't invest in cap ships already have very little reason to trade, we don't want to reduce that even further - and that's before considering the cheaper AUs and HauI, which aren't even much less effective than AUVIII.

Also, if a player is so new that they don't know to buy armor, getting that hull bonus automatically probably won't help much. They'll get annihilated regardless.

The issue is looking at everything through Vets' point of view. From what I remember, all changes we make on snubs is done on basis what the best players can do, not what the very average players can do. Such changes are increasing the snub learning curve even more. That's why you see noob gunboats and caps, because doing Snub PVP is very hard.

Myself, I would love to have left part of Xbox One controller as means of strafing in Freelancer, because in Everspace I rarely get hit (unless I'm very unlucky and I spawn on dozens of Okkar beyond Sector 4) using pretty intuitive three-dimensional strafe control scheme. I cannot do the same so easily on Discovery due to keyboard layout and partial hand paralysis.

[Traxit]

If your complaint is about lesser armor upgrades being useless (which they are), here is a solution - I have talked to Cameron previously about making the AUs have a mass, so they affect ship maneuverability and handling. This way, some people will excell with the weaker AUs while others will do better with the heavier ones.

Please no. That'll just make new standards. Or everyone will be forced to get used to AU8's mass change.

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[Gagadug.]

Why do we even have lesser armors in the first place. That was removed for shields, guns and basically all the other things wich had a powercreep in vanilla, just that armors didnt even exist there.
Imo, just have AU8 and the capital armors, because these have an actual sense in different varieties (cargo space vs survivability). It could be called light armor upgrade or something the like.
To why I think armors with mass are a bad idea: You may or may not have noticed that not only noobs use lower armors but pros too, to bait people shooting them first, have more interesting fights, show off or whatever other reasons.
They kill the vast majority of players anyways and giving people who can shieldtank 90% of the servers population armors that make them even faster compared to noobs, who wont be able to make anything out of the extra speed but will most probably want the better armor, will increase the gap between pros and new guys.
Sounds like an idea that will make the life of new guys even harder.

[Chronicron]

Well, here is my two cents on a topic. I propose that armor upgrades are getting merged in ALL ships accordingly.

As an example.

AU6 for Light Fighters

AU8 for Freighters, Heavy and Very Heavy Fighters

HAU4 for SHFs and Transports

CAU6 for Gunboats and Destroyers

CAU7 for Cruisers

CAU8 for Battlecruisers, Battleships, Dreadnoughts and Carriers

This will remove a concept of armor upgrades as it is, so nobody will be bothered to by them and PvP proccess won't be basically "Grind-to-win". To compensate the removal of Armor Upgrades, you can boost up the price of the ships themselves, but I don't think it will make much sence.

And to stated above - there is no need to add the weight effect to Armor Upgrades, since they are basically the only way to win in sence of PvP right now.

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[Karlotta]

If your complaint is about lesser armor upgrades being useless (which they are), here is a solution - I have talked to Cameron previously about making the AUs have a mass, so they affect ship maneuverability and handling. This way, some people will excell with the weaker AUs while others will do better with the heavier ones.

That feature existed on the Vanguard mod (which I played before discovery), in addition to more features (several mountable thrusters, powercores with different outputs and masses, size dependent radar signatures) which let you customize your ships in very individual ways, which made ship building alone very much fun. In discovery, even the more limited ship-building experience of freelancer is taken away by technerfs and evenly distributed sell locations, which takes a lot of the fun out especially for new people because thats exactly what most are looking for when trying a Freelancer mod.

However I think there are a lot more urgent and easier-to-mod things that need doing before this particular feature. There will also be the problem that it'll change PvP mechanics, and each and every single change in PvP mechanics which will force the people who trained current mechanics for years to adapt, which will cause a great outcry from them.

A much faster and less mechanic-changing "fix" for making lower priced armors less useless is to simply buff them without buffing their price, and to make AU8 more expensive without buffing the performance (the latter addresses what Karst mentions below).

Setting up a fighter is already laughably cheap; a 20 minute ore run gives you enough cash for two. Vets that don't invest in cap ships already have very little reason to trade, we don't want to reduce that even further - and that's before considering the cheaper AUs and HauI, which aren't even much less effective than AUVIII.

Different armors should have such a small performance difference and such a large price difference that people will really think about "do I really want this expensive armor on this char or is this char not that important to me".

That was already suggested years ago, but some vets declared that not having the best ship easily set up for them (cheap, no need to grind missions) was much more important than anything that would make things more interesting and fun for noobs. And by the look of things, that attitude still persists today.

Also, if a player is so new that they don't know to buy armor, getting that hull bonus automatically probably won't help much. They'll get annihilated regardless.

Exactly the point I was raising before. If anything, having the best armor will just prolong the fight (prolong the pleasure for the sadistic annihilator) and provide an alibi for the guy who targeted the noob because he cant be blamed for exploding someone who was already easily identifiable as a no-chance-in-hell noob with a ship scan.

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[Durandal]

Yeah I ran this argument by the rest of the balance team awhile ago and nobody seemed to care. I don't think much has changed in that regard sadly.

My solution would be to have the AU8 come as part of any fighter buy package. That way we keep the price, avoid having issues with nanobots, and don't end up with armorless newbies everywhere. I have literally no idea why that is considered a problem or a bad idea.