I think that what's intended to happen at some point down the line is Auxesia getting mechanical clones of Core weapons, potentially with different effects to indicate they're an older variant separately maintained and further developed by Auxesia. That's something that would be happening in a more major update than a semi-monthly patch, especially if new effects have to be added (even just recolouring ALEs takes dedicated time to editing, building, and testing).
(05-21-2018, 11:24 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: Either way the current status quo is not good. Many do not feel like the roleplay and justifications for the tech is sufficient, and even if it is Auxesia's handling of a very gracious tech cell allowance still does not feel right. This solution is the best way to deal with things without taking things away, or undermining the value/RP of that tech.
The problem with roleplay sufficiency is that it's highly subjectivised. Ultimately the greens are the only final arbiters of what has sufficent RP behind it. Whilst bias isn't necessarily the cause of such disputes, it's hard to legislate such concerns other than observation as to how the requests are used.
If Core can request that their own tech changes, that would solve the issue without needing to change what Auxesia have/do, Lyth. It's always easier to do something with your own faction than it is to encourage others to look at themselves and make a change, a la Michael Jackson.
(05-21-2018, 11:26 AM)Kazinsal Wrote: I think that what's intended to happen at some point down the line is Auxesia getting mechanical clones of Core weapons, potentially with different effects to indicate they're an older variant separately maintained and further developed by Auxesia. That's something that would be happening in a more major update than a semi-monthly patch, especially if new effects have to be added (even just recolouring ALEs takes dedicated time to editing, building, and testing).
That would rock, and resolve everything, too.
THE SYNDIC LEAGUES
(A co-operative of Rheinland's Shipping Unions, retired from a life of piracy.)
(05-21-2018, 11:21 AM)Tænì Wrote: However, such a split requires the consent of both parties privy to the cell at 100%, since they both have equal rights as they both have InRp manufacturing capacity/are integeral to the look and feel of the faction.
If Vendetta doesn't want to go for a tech cell split, he doesn't need to. He has ultimately equal control over the cell to the Core 1ic. Auxesia has some valid reasons to have the equipment, and I'm saying this as somebody who Aux doesn't like. Changes need the consent of both parties, either in creation, or in removal.
This would be good and all if we, or BHG, were consulted or allowed to be given input when it happened. We weren't. That's more or less the crux of the issue, and why it's gotten to this point. Another split of the AP-Line is the best way to deal with it moving forward.
(05-21-2018, 11:28 AM)Tænì Wrote: The problem with roleplay sufficiency is that it's highly subjectivised. Ultimately the greens are the only final arbiters of what has sufficent RP behind it. Whilst bias isn't necessarily the cause of such disputes, it's hard to legislate such concerns other than observation as to how the requests are used.
The greens were not happy with Auxesia selling our stuff when they first tried doing it.
(05-21-2018, 11:28 AM)Tænì Wrote: If Core can request that their own tech changes, that would solve the issue without needing to change what Auxesia have/do, Lyth. It's always easier to do something with your own faction than it is to encourage others to look at themselves and make a change, a la Michael Jackson.
This is kinda what I'm suggesting. Auxesia gets our current snubs and gunboats, and we get newly modeled ships. It's a perfect visual showcase of the split, Aux using outdated stuff etc whilst also solving the greater problems at hand.
(05-21-2018, 11:26 AM)Kazinsal Wrote: I think that what's intended to happen at some point down the line is Auxesia getting mechanical clones of Core weapons, potentially with different effects to indicate they're an older variant separately maintained and further developed by Auxesia. That's something that would be happening in a more major update than a semi-monthly patch, especially if new effects have to be added (even just recolouring ALEs takes dedicated time to editing, building, and testing).
Pretty much my idea, except it'd be happening sooner because of a sense of urgency. Cosmetic changes could be done later.
(05-21-2018, 11:26 AM)Kazinsal Wrote: I think that what's intended to happen at some point down the line is Auxesia getting mechanical clones of Core weapons, potentially with different effects to indicate they're an older variant separately maintained and further developed by Auxesia.
Doubt that something like that will be a thing at this point.
(10-13-2023, 12:51 AM)Haste Wrote: This is a feature as most Discovery players would not receive a response from women.
(05-21-2018, 11:28 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: This would be good and all if we, or BHG, were consulted or allowed to be given input when it happened. We weren't. That's more or less the crux of the issue, and why it's gotten to this point. Another split of the AP-Line is the best way to deal with it moving forward.
I totally agree chicanery happened when the line was put in, probably because there was no consensus at the time. I'm well aware that the submission occurred through the means of full-RP-ahead, damn-the-torpedoes. I was in Aux chat when they set up the request so I do recall that there wasn't mutal agreement around. Core and Order are big, mysterious tech factions, so you have people stealing your equipment under various pretexts all the time. Apahanta, Auxesia (who helped the Apahanta become a thing), hell, even my SRP [not the battleship, the other one] (from when I played Discovery actively) is in some way effected by it, because it has 100% on "core" tech obtained from Auxesia. Equally, post-Order characters running around with Order tech are so old that entire children have been conceived and brought up in the time that such characters have been emerging on discovery - not to slander those who RP them. Order and Core are always going to suffer from the Tech-availability dispute, because post-Order, Post-Core characters make for interesting, popular roles. They get to be the closest thing Discovery will let you be, to late-game Edison Trent. Expecially Auxesia that lets you be a cool, shady transhumanist freelancer in a carnival mask and shizzle.
However we can't retroactively solve disputes from year(s) ago through subtractive development, as there will always be legitimate roleplayers and people who had no input in the decision shafted by the process; I.E: every recruit Auxesia has got since then, people whose RP depends upon the equipment that they had no say in the decision making. An additive fix, like the ones suggested, would solve the problem in a way that works for everyone, functionally, even if it doesn't heal the root dispute that the RP is controversial.
It's better than a compromise for both sides and would be a difficult development direction to poke holes in.
I do empathise. I wasn't impressed when IRG magically got 100% on AI equipment, either, despite that AI equipment is meant to be more mysterious than Nomad Tech due to its comparative lack of study and availability, either. 75% would have been reasonable, but 100%? C'mon.
THE SYNDIC LEAGUES
(A co-operative of Rheinland's Shipping Unions, retired from a life of piracy.)
It's not going to happen next patch, for a myriad of reasons. It's also not your place to go out and start making decisions and having discussions on behalf of our faction, so stop doing that.
And to quote:
(05-21-2018, 11:33 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: The greens were not happy with Auxesia selling our stuff when they first tried doing it.
I've already explained this to you and spoke to a staff member on the matter. It's perfectly within the scope of the rules to do what we're doing.
Stop fixating on us and what we're doing with the things we were given.
Stop inciting discussions about our faction when it most certainly does not involve you.
Stop jumping to conclusions based on what you were told by one dev saying feasible. Feasible does not mean they are going to do anything. It just means that they can.
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As for everybody else - This is not an open discussion. This is a topic that should've been dropped when the devs made a gold announcement about it about a year ago. This is literally beating a dead horse at this point. Drop the subject, and move on.
We're not getting a tech split anytime soon. Whether it's to explain older variants or to justify the Core wanting to feel special and cling on to the ships they're trying to get remodeled anyway, it's not happening for at the least several months from now. I won't allow it. Hell, a good portion of our stuff that was released isn't working properly. There's still a lot of paperwork, RP, and overhauls we need to do. Other things take priority right now because we're still sorting everything out.
So if we can put up with being harassed for years about this topic by various other parties, I'm sure you can wait a little longer for a more definitive verdict on the subject.
(05-21-2018, 11:08 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: What's going to (or will hopefully) happen is that the Core guns, turrets and equipment will be duplicated for a separate Auxesia cell in a Patch or so. These will be considred the outdated models they left The Core with. At some point in the future, the ships will undergo the same treatment once Core gets new models for their shipline and Auxesia will 'keep' the current ships minus caps as placeholders until they get their own ship-line. I believe this solution is the best course of action that can be taken without leaving one side upset, or lore/RP in a mess.
Until this happens, I would suggest not selling any equipment (and ships perhaps? Although I can understand more leniency here as this part of the solution ha no clear date) as it is technically not what you actually have, and it will allow for the smoothest transition once the equipment gets added.
Neat, thanks for putting words in my mouth.
I said that we can split the tech lines and give Aux their own. I said that we could do that, not that we will. It's more or less been canonized at this point that Auxesia is fully capable of reverse engineering your technology, and while a split at some point is sensible the development team is not obligated to prioritize it for you.
Consider this: if what you are requesting is that Aux receives a tech split from the current core tech line that they possess, then that means you acknowledge their possession of the aforementioned technology and their ability to modify it into something of their own design. With that in mind, we can very safely assume that they are capable of replicating it and - christ, no, anything but this - giving it away.
You have been hypocritical throughout this entire process, championing yourself as the hero of everything non-vanilla while actively impeding the efforts of factions similar to your own in progression simply because of the people involved and the way things were handled, ignoring espoused principles in favor of what appears to be a personal vendetta, pun not intended, towards both Auxesia and the development team. Your faction sold tech which you believed to belong to the BHG|, which somehow wasn't an issue. Now when Auxesia distributes your technology, which again and again has been deemed legitimate by the staff, you whine. When the retcon happened - and as much as I hated it, it needed to happen for this very reason (imagine the weird boat we'd be in right now if Auxesia was selling BHG tech) - you stomped your feet and cried about that, too.
Go back to being the paragon of activity in the Omicrons which I promise you is not being impeded by a base in Inverness selling your guns, and stop wasting our time. Pissing off developers and not understanding the word no to the point where we need to come into a feedback thread and yellow text is not the guy you want to be.
In summary, Auxesia has the guns sold on their base, the means to produce them were a product of years of roleplay, they can distribute them, they do not own the techcell, and while the situation Kazinsal described is likely to happen at some point, we are not going to expedite it just for you.
As far as I am aware of Auxesia's RP. Given their technical skills and prowess and I even recall Nyx mentioning that when she left the Core, given her position as leader in that period, she managed to "peak an eye" on several Core technologies at that time.
I won't barge with wall of texts like the others, but I'll just put it this way, and I repeated this countless of times.
- It's a ROLEPLAY environment, thus you need at times to be creative in order to realize what it has to be done and how you done things.
- The game is limited as it is and the developers don't deliver weekly/monthly patches of contents so you gotta use what you got ingame.
- Being an RP environment, the ingame content should not limit your capacity to create stuff.
- Why the hell everything about Core, Zoners, Order it has to be so sensitive?
The discussion is pointless Lythrilux, because the reasons are here. The fact that you like that or not, it's irrelevant to say the least. Auxesia RPed enough imo to back-up their creation of technology. If it doesnt make sense then.. sorry. Put another coin.
Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding. - Sovereign
To stop the pointless drama:
I have had only one encounter with Auxesia so far ingame, which resulted in my snub being torn apart by a Missle+ Solaris Gunboat. RP or not, ooRP I would call that a bitchmove and ever since then I've had a bad view on Auxesia as a whole.
To not mess things up, I do not dislike the RP of the faction or anything, I even find it very interesting, but raping Snubs with Antisnub platforms is by no means fun for the one flying the snub..
Last words are for fools who have not yet said enough.