(11-26-2018, 01:37 AM)Minh Wrote: I kinda thought this thread is meant for constructive discussion, not some flood-rate blabling. :/
Corile Wrote:Cease
I literally don't know what the intent of the thread is considering that it's literally been stated with 100% objectivity that this is the immediate buildup to a counterattack and reconquest from the Sirian side.
For every voice I hear in favour of a logical storyline progression like this I seem to be hearing another one that unironically wants us to just decide that Gallia felt bored and pulled out and sealed the minefields up again. Is that really a good course of action for the story? Does that solve any problems that can't be solved in a more fulfilling way for the players and the game lore by seeing this thing through over the next few months?
Is it not possible to have an end to the Gallic war where Gallia wins (or the Sirians lose), in some way? That kind of outcome could affect the universe in an interesting way, and although the conflict ends it doesn't mean things go back to the status quo. There'd be an impact.
Wait. I thought that everyone wants Bretonia to FINALLY lose, especially with last remains of 'reasonable' self-efficient industry to support capital ships lost, let alone the daily-day economy. They lost Leeds. Now they lost the most efficient shipyard what would totally break down their economy.
Also, like I stated before, during such circumstances I'd start to fear that Liberty uses the situation and annex Bretonia as Bretonia barely has anything to fight with anymore.
@Lythrilux You say that because if Gallia lost, the Core's deals with it would be for nothing!
PS: @Minh With the info you have, your reasoning is logical, but you don't have all the info. Bretonia isn't the main fighting force in Bretonia, Liberty is. What you predict to happen after the war is interesting, though.
Another thing. Leeds wasn't really -lost-, in the full sense of the word. It was "given". Bretonian casualties in material and men have been low before this year, because the scorched earth strategy was employed. New London is also able to support industry (that is where the infrastructure from Leeds was being relocated to for years, since the Kusari war), though realistically not as much as Leeds, and Sprague is becoming an industrial centre. The destruction of Southampton is a major blow, but since building a warship takes months, and this is the final push, then it will not have a major effect, unless it turns into a stalemate. Attrition will then wear Bretonia down.
I think that you are right about the social aspect, though. It would indeed be realistic to have social disorder by now, but perhaps the government is able to employ the "evil enemy that kills sons and rapes daughters is at the doorstep" trick to keep the population united. That's what today's powers are doing with all these wars at least.
Even though I took an extended absence from Disco, I'd like to pitch in with my own observations.
First off, I think there's a definite correlation in the gallic expansion and the movement of the player base. People have often complained about how nearly 100% of server activity seems packed into the omicrons (namely omicron delta and the surrounding systems), and they're always wondering why we have so much activity in eastern/southeastern sirius rather than where all the mod updates are happening. It's pretty obvious to me: anything to do with gallia pushes people away. Players want to be as far from that clusterf*** as possible, and that's the omicrons. Now, I'm not complaining, as it's given a huge boost in activity to the factions I always played for the most (Order, Core, Nomads, etc.), but at the same time I can see a definite negative impact on the mod as a whole due to the changes that have been made in the name of 'story advancement'.
Bretonia has, obviously, suffered the most, along with the whole slew of tau systems. Back before gallia was introduced, I frequently flew through bretonia, kusari, and the tau systems on my smugglers and traders. Now I can honestly say that I havent taken a non-combatant ship into that entire area of the mod since like 4.84. The taus have become anathema to trade routes, kusari was made hostile to junkers via the rep hack, and to top all of that off mining completely snuffed out any form of trade or smuggling as the most profitable pastime. Mining routes should never have been made 2-3 times (or more) more profitable than the classic smuggling routes, as those killed of a LOT of trader interaction.
On the topic of mining: piracy doesn't even really happen anymore, because it's far more profitable to be a miner or a transporter and it's simply not worth anyone's time to actually try and catch the transports anymore.
The entire concept of gallia has -always- felt forced by the dev team. Nobody really wanted it to begin with, and while in the first iteration gallia was a nice little novelty (and might have even helped junker activity following the kusari repnerf due to gallic connections), it quickly became an area that nobody wanted to deal with. Gallic systems are convoluted and hard to navigate, there are no decent trade routes between gallia and sirius - and even if there were the rep of the local factions would probably nullify any attempts at trade. Junkers quickly lost any kind of connections to gallia as they were outed by the government and basically snuffed out of existence, and that to me felt like a forced play by the dev team to try and cover up some apparent mistake they made by including junkers in gallia at all.
What's worse is that gallia, despite the constant defeats they've suffered during player events, and the fact that they're completely outnumbered by the houses and their own rebel/criminal/terrorist factions, somehow manage to keep pushing forward relentlessly, wrecking everything in their path. Leeds used to be one of the most frequently traveled systems in the mod before gallia made their way past the taus, and now it's completely dead. The same is going to happen to new london, and eventually the rest of bretonia. I almost get the feeling that someone (or multiple someones) on the dev team simply have a bone to pick with bretonia and want to wrecking-ball it out of the mod entirely. It's bad enough that they've got some of the ugliest vanilla ships and have always struggled for activity, but now everyone seems hellbent on destroying the entire house.
Gallia needs to go, it was a bad idea and always has been a bad idea. Stop promoting it, stop trying to force it into getting activity, just wipe it out and be done with it. Discovery was better before gallia came along.
(11-26-2018, 01:46 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: Is it not possible to have an end to the Gallic war where Gallia wins (or the Sirians lose), in some way? That kind of outcome could affect the universe in an interesting way, and although the conflict ends it doesn't mean things go back to the status quo. There'd be an impact.
Food for thought.
At this point Gallia is inevitably destined to lose either of their two major conflicts, the conquest or the civil war. They apparently focus more on the conquest, which leaves Council plenty of opportunity to gain ground inside the Kingdom. And we've been doing so quite well so far.
As with any war Liberty is involved in, the super duper cool and amazing American House that's the best at everything(!) dives in and saves the day. As far as we can all tell. Personally, I think that's really boring. I'd much rather, especially if the war is ending, we go a different route and try something more innovative.
4.91 is the last update in which Gallia will be central to the storyline. It's a big final push so we can end the war with something big and move on with our lives, instead of sweeping it under the rug and moving on with our lives.
(11-26-2018, 01:46 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: ...and although the conflict ends it doesn't mean things go back to the status quo. There'd be an impact.
Food for thought.
You got this part right at least, and I don't mean a few debris fields and battleship wrecks. Genuinely don't be surprised if colors on the map have changed when all is said and done.
I think that even if Sirius "wins" as in, the war ends and Gallia pulls out, Gallia still wins. They created an economic boom for themselves, established puppeteer influence in two Sirian houses, destroyed a good amount of western Sirian infrastructure, built infrastructure in Tau-23 uncontested, crippled Bretonia's industrial capacity, ran successful intelligence and psychological warfare campaigns, destroyed multiple fleets from two houses and several nation-states, and literally made Planet Leeds worthless.
They lost a pile of military assets. No home ground was lost, no industrial capacity was lost.
Even if Gallia pulls out, they've still won the war.
Kusari is no longer the puppetstate of Gallia with end of Democratic Republic of Kusari and re-establishing Empire. The fact that that house does not join either side doesn't mean it is under Gallic control. It is simply withdrawal from any foreign involvement after three major conflicts in which KNF was involved.