When should systems be removed?

[Foxglove]

When should systems be removed?

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The following is going to be a discussion about the question of what should happen to systems that have no discernable purpose. After having talked to a bunch of people regarding the topic and having heard their arguments, I am going to present them below as best as I can. With their replies, users will be able to amend anything I missed, which I will then add to the argumental sides. This way, I can provide a clear presentation of all sides of the argument without the inevitable background noise that is sure to come from people talking past the topic. The aim of this is to try and approach, as objectively as possible, a question that is regarding the fundamentals of the development philosophy: Is more content better? How do we maximize interaction? This is kind of a test of mine to see whether a discussion like this is possible, so bear with me. [Insert joke about an actual discussion on the internet here.]

Keep in mind this is not going to change anything, so there is no need to have a go at each others' throats.

A. Removing unnecessary systems

This has been the general tendency of the system development in recent times. For every new system added, like Omega-2, there were at least two systems axed before. Gallia itself has been reduced by almost half its size. The result of this is obviously less content, but the aim is to reduce content so that players have less space that could be between them. It is supposed to facilitate ingame interaction by forcing people closer together. This approach to system development works with the idea that less can be more, because the fun part about the game is not flying through space, but flying through it with other player. And besides, empty systems aren't going to be missed by anyone anyway, since they were, well, unused. From this argument follows that the idea of adding new systems would need to be measured against this ideal, because new systems would mean more space that could keep players apart.

This does not necessarily mean that systems will be removed, but rather that there is a general tendency towards reductionism rather than conservation or expansion of content.

So in summary:

• Less systems means players congregate in the remaining systems, increasing likelihood of encounters.
  
• Unused systems will not be missed since they had no purpose to begin with.
  
• From this follows that handling of new systems needs to be handled carefully, as they counteract the aim of reducing space to condense players.
  

Subscribers to this idea:
Markam

B. Making systems with no discernable purpose dead-end systems

A second approach to the question that I have heard from people was to keep them, but reduce the amount of system connections that they have to one, making them a dead-end system. This would mean that the system would still be there and that roleplay around it could still be conducted, as well as not conflicting with already written roleplay (retcons). By reducing the ways by which people can enter and exit a system, you create choke points that players need to pass through, thus naturally encouraging encounters. Content is what makes the game worth playing. Removing it makes the game less attractive. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. By removing a system that is mostly devoid of players, you don't create more encounters, but only make it so there is less content to the game. If people didn't visit these systems before, that does not mean they will then magically encounter one another elsewhere where they hadn't met before anyway.

In summary:

• Not necessarily more systems, but rearranging the system connections so that players are naturally required to pass choke points and thus encounter players. This would mean giving systems that are candidates for removal only one entry and exit.
  
• Less uncertainty about conducting roleplay in or about a system, as there is no fear of it being made obsolete.
  
• Removing perfectly functional content is seen as a last resort option. Conservation of content is prioritized in order to not lobotomize the game.
  
• A system that had no visitors does not contribute to the number of encounters with its removal, since people, well, did not meet there.
  
• By extension of the logic in the first point, new systems would need to be considered with choke points in mind so as to encourage encounters of players.
  

Subscribers to this idea:
Anton Okunev
Antonio
Riehl
Unity
Cpt. Dillan Hunt
Sand_Spider

C. Community opinions

This is where I will be listing opinions that do not fit under the ones outlined above. If they do, I will add opinions and additional points raised to the abovementioned opinions.

Querious argues for a combination method of those outlined above.

Commissar SnakeLancer™ argues for the reduction of buffer systems. Too many system connections cause players to scatter and so reducing them would naturally squeeze players into encounters.

Sand_Spider argues for more one-way systems similar to Kansas-Unknown-Penny. This seems like a variation of the idea of creating choke points by having systems with one entry and one exit.

Tenacity argues for the reduction in system count drastically to have fewer systems that were not originally part of vanilla Freelancer.

D. Conclusion

This is where I will write a conclusion of the discussion once a certain amount of time has passed during which the thread has gotten no replies anymore. If it even gets replies, since this is a lot of text.

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[Markam]

Rather than removing systems, I think a conscious effort be made by Devs and player factions to maximize activity in certain areas. I also think RP should take the back seat in this regard. We need a royal rumble style environment, where Discord calls to action are able to be met by multiple factions.

For example, the invasion of Bretonia into O49 created a scenario where any hostile ships being present in O49 a warrant for BAF to log in and shoot. I have seen multiple BAF discord calls to action upon seeing Corsairs in O49. Also, BAF has conducted patrols in O49, which I assume has set off some calls in Corsair or maybe even Zoner/Order discords (or at least I hope so).

We need more cross overs of ZOI, the more the better. RP constraints are understandable, but should be stretched as much as possible.

I am totally for putting a Core base in say, Omega 3 or Omega 49, upon the invitation of Bretonia, Likewise, an Order base can be nestled somewhere in Omega-something. That way, there is a potential for combat with; BAF, Core, Order, Corsairs, Zoners, RHA, SCRA, Gaians (give them a small base in O49 too, why not), Mollies etc.

I will even go a step further, and say that GRN be given a Battle-cruiser like the one in Dublin so MRG players can log in O49 too. Oh, but Markam, that's so far from their focus in NL, so far from the front lines! I don't think this kind of RP centric thinking should dictate where factions ZOI is situated, if we want to improve activity, we need to make as many cross overs as is possible.

I can think of many more examples, hell, give CR and Outcasts a temporary base of operation in New London too. Logging into BAF, I get requests from Outcast indie caps for them to join in the fun against Corsairs etc, but I cannot oblige them as it is BAF policy to turn away Outcasts due to RP constraints, and frankly this is a waste of activity, and sends a bad message to likely a new player who made that Outcast cap but is unable to have any fun.

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Markam is evil

[Querious]

For scenario A, the devs have done a pretty good job so far, removing systems that nobody would really miss. The biggest generators of activity that were removed, to my knowledge, were Omicron Zeta, Omega-15, Omega-11, and Dundee, but even most of those places were already dying when cut out from the game.

For scenario B, this option has already seen some use, with New Hampshire and Omicron Phi. Both systems had a lot of RP in them in the past, but eventually just became backwater or dead-end systems not worth most people's time. However, the framework is still there for usage in the future, should more people find interest in them.

Scenario C can be many different things, though most of the time, the devs see it in their best interest to rebrand a boring system into a better one. Such is the case with Omicron Epsilon, Omicron Xi, Sigma-59, Sigma-15, Omega-55, and so many others. Another scenario would be to pull a Zurich, and make initially odd jump connections that end up benefiting the interaction ratio overall.

Changing up ZoI can also make a big difference, as seen with the Gallic Invasion, and the Core presence in the Omegas. Both groups are primarily in regions far from there, but have increased activity by spicing things up in their new zones of influence. The Unioners in Texas is another good example, paving the path to their eventual collaborative efforts to make Bering a lot more interesting and desirable of a place.

[LaWey]

Of course B. Removing of the systems literally cut any research activity, left absolutely less content to explore. I dont understand why it so hard left unused systems as dead end, instead of their irrational removing.

Problems were due dozen of "buffer" systems which were mindless placed everywhere. They should just become dead end.

Especially angry me make that fact, can be removed actually good designed system, which make eyes joy, and instead i should fly through another vomiting place. Forgetting simple fact that SPACE arcade should have damned SPACE firslty not lead to anything good.

And in end, i want to note - stuck peoples together not how interactions work. Systems should just have choke points, to give chance for seeker find somebody. But turn it in just straight line and drop everybody in same place not work. Not any collision lead to interaction. And nor every of this interaction any interesting.

Well if summ it up. Regarding space game - more space always better. There should be endless frontier. Yes i understand systems should have quality, but i think, there already were people, who love design systems and contribute to game by it. I also honestly think, many of system could've saved just as uncharted. Of course better if they would have more unique, out-bonding design, but current situation with 10-20 single star-hole systems could've changed by just saving unused systems as uncharteds.

[SnakeLancerHaven]

Rather than removing systems

Nah dude, there's no "rather". End the buffer systems, they should've never existed in the first place. It killed Sair vs OC wars, it killed many other interactions. Just minimize it, we're not that many left so let us at least see and embrace (no homo) each other while we can. <- No Sarcasm intended.

What could be done is add dead ends, so add dead ends to the unnecessary systems make it worth while exploring but dont make it connect to 32408 other systems.

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[Antonio]

Either of the two works, I personally prefer dead-end systems. There have been multiple threads about the topic before and they were all swiftly ignored. Considering it's one of the top priorities needed addressing in this game, doing other less relevant things isn't helping either. I sincerely hope we get a connection overhaul before it's too late, i.e. before almost everyone gives up and only logs on pre-arranged terms such as events, because the rework's going to happen at some point. It has to. Every day delayed makes it worse. However there's another problem right now which is that the devs are currently too busy clashing with the admin team and making up drama than you know, developing the game.

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[Enkidu]

I'm genuinely begging system cutting to stop. So much unique content has been cut and cut again by system-removers. Over and over, we lose original material. We are the only game in existence that gets smaller and less content rich over time.

Dead-end systems should become just that - dead ends. They shouldn't be axed from the mod at the expense of the 'Discovery' aspect of discovery.

In fact I'd rather have More systems, just revise the hole layouts so for econ and PVP reasons people will feel funnelled into certain directions.

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[Unity]

I dont agree with removing systems either.

Alot of work has been put into these old systems and the presence of them not only makes the game more interesting, but it offers plenty of things to do in the game such as exploration. Removing systems just so pirates can pirate more and so that traders make less profitable routes is not the way for the future of this mod. Old systems could be used for a variety of RP reasons, Chester was a fantastic idea of this for Wild RP within Bretonia.

Is this really how we will attract new players to this mod, to keep the server population healthy?

[Madvillain]

I miss O91 as the corsairs helms deep of gamma raids, it was a functional, beloved system and I have my suspicions that is exactly why it got removed

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[Querious]

I miss O91 as the corsairs helms deep of gamma raids, it was a functional, beloved system and I have my suspicions that is exactly why it got removed

I'm guessing that role was moved to Gamma, since Hessians had no ZoI in Omicron Omega/91.