(12-15-2019, 07:21 AM)The Milk of Auzari Wrote: Discovery was working without player roleplay canonization for a long enough time to prove that people shouldn't give a damn about what is considered canon. The only things that matter are, matter of factly, what people roleplay. No matter if it is canonized or not.
The majority of players stay and stick for months and years. Nobody can convince me that people do their best to put efforts into their roleplay while trying their best to not do anything profitable ingame - simply because capitals and CAUs and special equipment exist.
Perhaps because the assumption was that it was canon? That their actions had some level of meaning, and that the devs were paying attention to events that were occurring, and only recently reality has come knocking at the door thanks to new management? I am not ignoring the flaws in the old system, rather focusing on criticism of the newer system because the more imminent issue is this document before us. Yes, people metagame, people powergame, and it's completely antithetical to an RP environment, but to have the environment's own stewards more or less come down on the community with the idea that no, they, who do more writing and put in more effort to provide characterization than the developers themselves do, are not canon unless they shill out money to be merely considered? Does that not strike you as degradation? Harmful?
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If people were believing that roleplay and canon are the same thing, they probably either didn't know better or blissfully ignored every annual drama about the difference between what the community considers relevant (everything happening ingame, player factions) and what the devs consider relevant (the story they tell, NPC factions).
(12-15-2019, 07:29 AM)The Milk of Auzari Wrote: If people were believing that roleplay and canon are the same thing, they probably either didn't know better or blissfully ignored every annual drama about the difference between what the community considers relevant (everything happening ingame, player factions) and what the devs consider relevant (the story they tell, NPC factions).
Then perhaps this document is less an isolated incident but a symptom of a years-old problem? You are demonstrating that the tensions in regards to this subject go rather far back, and could be seen as an action in an attempt to end the contention in the developers' favor? I concede that no, I didn't know, because I was not around for whatever yuletide drama occurred, and indeed was gone for two years on top of that. Perhaps others could throw in their two cents, if they want to assert that yes, they assumed that their actions carried some level of meaning, that what they wrote had some manner of purpose and function?
Roleplay itself is the creation of a story, and if there is a disconnect this fundamental? Perhaps this document is more serious because of it, because this could serve to further widen the gap, alienating the two groups and potentially causing more severe drama because of it.
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Welll..then some explaining required.
First, this thing obviously dont affect SRP, so some people here nohow ever not linked with this requirements. (this is what about my phrase regarding SRP was. And i know many players never did any other impact than SRP or FCR, which is, another case)
Second. That way what you described, dont work. Just at all.
Due of server population reduced, we have closed circle of doom, where players lobbying for changes causing devs went in more inert stance, what cause players complain more and bomb them more. Old ways cant work anymore, we are already dead and should adapt to afterworld, pathes of alives not an option anymore.
I can bring easy example. We all know, that players alot of times whined their assets from destruction by story. But almost never it brought any positive impact. Its not means that instead of it there will be something new. Its just means, that devs will rollback in Lethe for another halfyear before coming with another solution, against which will protests another side. That how things now went in extremely stale stance.
Also. Yes team is fickle, but this not how not related to this discussion. As well as SRP, FCR, and OF requests.
Yes, billion of money is easy to get if you in faction. Even if not and you wont powertrade, crowdfunding is a thing.
I see also Typrop rise here what i can summ by this quote.
Quote:Instead of analyzing the RP game and drawing any conclusions based on it (which is not so difficult, no matter how stupid the game is)
So. Guys. Lest make this question easy at once. Do you ready do it yourself? Read everything what posted in story section, in messagedumps. Disregard how its english will be broken, disregard how dull, edgelordy, cringy it can be. AND then compare it to really happening things, compare with in-canon faction resources, manpower, time borders. Constantly. Day to day. And write story out of it.
(12-15-2019, 07:21 AM)The Milk of Auzari Wrote: Discovery was working without player roleplay canonization for a long enough time to prove that people shouldn't give a damn about what is considered canon. The only things that matter are, matter of factly, what people roleplay. No matter if it is canonized or not.
The majority of players stay and stick for months and years. Nobody can convince me that people do their best to put efforts into their roleplay while trying their best to not do anything profitable ingame - simply because capitals and CAUs and special equipment exist.
It worked without player roleplay canonization for just about long enough for all the one system nations to crop up and isolate themselves behind walls of prejudice and entitlement. While quite literally every other faction which can(or at least should) be considered their peers has had to endure neglect, in the best scenario or being railroaded in the worst. There isn't much fun in trading, I personally only ever do it when I need to finance things for faction incentive, like having the money required to reward people for kills and other activities. I don't really trade beyond that unless I just want to kill time by watching a cruise animation.
What I'm sick of, and what a lot of people are sick of, is that instead of expanding on the actual vanilla factions which make this geriatric game interesting. People have instead chosen to maneuver themselves into the positions necessary, create their own blends of fan-fiction and thereby destroy carefully crafted niches and be proud about it. If I am now going to be expected to cough up money to have a "timely" consideration of things which were already happening in the base game, alongside the fact that this is a game of social status and not merit, then why bother?
It's all fine and dandy that we can give these amalgamations of fetishism and poorly constructed political rhetoric full shiplines and planets, but not when that comes at the expense of the actual flesh and blood of the universe that keeps people here. And it will never be taken lying down. If the constant attempts to turn base-game factions into proxies for actual trash with a yellow name behind it and the deletion of things like the LWB isn't fuel enough for the fire, well. I'm afraid I don't have enough buckets on hand.
I said this earlier on the discord but I feel its appropriate here as well.
I'm a returning veteran player from back in 2012, admittedly nearly everything I submitted has apparently been lost but otherwise I believe I'm one example of those the community is trying to get to come play and help bolster the numbers. I realize I have no sway in the community but as an outsider I think I can comment on the things prevalent in Discovery that push me and likely many others away. No one likes being railroaded or discarded. Joining Discovery is taken too seriously to the point its more work than fun. Just joining the community forces rp interaction on players that may not be comfortable enough with roleplay to join in rather than welcoming them to come just to play and putting that onus on the seasoned members of the community. Just listing the RP restrictions in the rules puts barriers in place to drive new players away. I don't mean that RP should be set aside but that instead it should be rewarded. Every barrier put up hurts the community and only makes things worse and this newest development is a perfect example of that.
Instead of throwing up new barriers to player involvement they should be tearing down rules that don't really contribute to the goals of having stories worth reading about. The rules on re-engagement with alternate characters just means that now with the dwindling population you have to wait before you can interact with that player again, meaning your both stuck waiting for an arbitrary time out of potential story. Most of the rules were made with good intentions but in practice they just suppress player interactions in artificial ways that will continue to drive players away.
So having an actual guarantee that people HAVE to look at your concerns is bad because it costs money that a) ensures that not everyone of said fan-fiction party doesn't spam their own requests (which lowers the chance that your stuff is getting looked into) while b) it shows that people are absolutely serious about what they do because they did the grind (or bought credits for 10$ from someone else who did)?
(12-15-2019, 07:40 AM)The Milk of Auzari Wrote: So having an actual guarantee that people HAVE to look at your concerns is bad because it costs money that a) ensures that not everyone of said fan-fiction party doesn't spam their own requests (which lowers the chance that your stuff is getting looked into) while b) it shows that people are absolutely serious about what they do because they did the grind (or bought credits for 10$ from someone else who did)?
That just adds a layer of bureaucracy to a system which already functions on your social status within the closed circle. It's a rubber stamp, it means nothing and amounts to nothing. Your requests vanish behind a locked door and the promise of a guarantee. But we all know what the real factors of consideration are.
(12-15-2019, 07:40 AM)The Milk of Auzari Wrote: So having an actual guarantee that people HAVE to look at your concerns is bad because it costs money that a) ensures that not everyone of said fan-fiction party doesn't spam their own requests (which lowers the chance that your stuff is getting looked into) while b) it shows that people are absolutely serious about what they do because they did the grind (or bought credits for 10$ from someone else who did)?
Imagine that, instead of a team who voluntarily looks at your item because they were shown it, and it looks interesting, to instead being observed by those being fiscally incentivized to do so. That does not breed confidence in me, because if anything, it would remove genuine passion and interest, and be more of a case of filling a checklist and moving on to the next one so that you're technically doing your "job" for monopoly bucks. The only defining trait for concerns should be RP quantity and quality, rather than an arbitrary fiscal gap in order to determine "seriousness." Good RP is its own payment, because it justifies everything within the setting relatively well, thus completing writing work for a concept's introduction and implementation, and rendering it a smooth and easy transition.
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Quote:What I'm sick of, and what a lot of people are sick of, is that instead of expanding on the actual vanilla factions which make this geriatric game interesting. People have instead chosen to maneuver themselves into the positions necessary, create their own blends of fan-fiction and thereby destroy carefully crafted niches and be proud about it.
Excuse me, but not even half of factions in vanilla were created so good to alive long-time progression and not just be good background for your SP campaign gameplay (for that short period of time convience much more achievable). Quarter of century inRP its alot of time, not much movement, not much regimes live so long tbh. Where i agree with you, that HOW it was performed below any good and evil catergories.