Either more or no unlawfuls should have access to 5000 cargo

[Shiki]

You can't sit here and say "well LOGICALLY"

I mean if you start doing that, then I barely see Outcasts using anything larger than gunships or freighters. Cruisers, battleships, and transports come from gameplay necessity.

But this on whole doesn't mean they couldn't become a recognized independent nation. Which they mostly are recognized as in RP.

They did specify their mode of operation in 'space', which considering the OCs have 3 planets with which they inhabit. They'd likely have a space-based transporting industry in its infancy and not very robust.
Their military alternative, and their runners are likely to be different from those.

You are coming from the false assumptions of Outcast space assets meaning a thing. But Outcast having 3 shipyards and Bretonia 1 doesn't mean that Outcasts can produce 3 times more ships. Or having industrial capacity near as close as Bretonian for example, which is by now the weakest of the Houses.

In vanilla Outcasts had 2 bases in space, which is Cali and Ruiz, both asteroid low effort tier bases. That reflects things way better than discovery at this point. Because with current development you need to have sellpoints for shiplines, add buffer systems and add docking points in them. I am not the fan of it, but that's the way things are.

Making Outcasts and nation or pretend to be yet another house is killing all charm to the faction. There are batter games to build space empires other than space shooter with RP elements. There are 5 Houses in this game, a lot of factions there, go play if you want to RP space nation or space government. Outcasts are about space smuggling and crime.

I think this news is also reflecting the level of development of Outcasts really well. Some old dude modernizing ships and trying to teach maggots to do something like him. And Outcasts seem to be incredibly proud of it, coming from the article's tone.

OUTCAST RAIDING FLEET TO BE UPDATED: MALTA -- Engineers are revamping 100 ships per month over the next two years in an effort to make a new design that will be implemented on the fleet. Casse's 100+ years of experience as an engineer makes him the finest ship designer and builder in all of Sirius. His academy builds new prototypes every semester as he trains a new generation to follow in his footsteps.

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[Hokan]

You are coming from the false assumptions of Outcast space assets meaning a thing. But Outcast having 3 shipyards and Bretonia 1 doesn't mean that Outcasts can produce 3 times more ships. Or having industrial capacity near as close as Bretonian for example, which is by now the weakest of the Houses.

I am coming from the correct assumption that what you see represented in the game, is the actual state of affairs. Regardless if its vanilla or not.
But to your point about the OCs having more shipyards than Bretonia, this is something I would not assume. Mainly because of two things.

1, Freelancers 'scale' is out of whack, and is downright stupid sometimes.
2, The OCs having 3 shipyards, in which 2 do not even run at full capacity doesn't outstrip the industrial and infrastructural capacities on planets like New London.

My main point here being that the representation of shipyards in space =/= the actual ability to produce ships. Space-based shipyards would obviously be much easier for larger ship construction, but they're not necessary.

In vanilla Outcasts had 2 bases in space, which is Cali and Ruiz, both asteroid low effort tier bases. That reflects things way better than discovery at this point. Because with current development you need to have sellpoints for shiplines, add buffer systems and add docking points in them. I am not the fan of it, but that's the way things are.

The curse of playing a mod.

Making Outcasts and nation or pretend to be yet another house is killing all charm to the faction. There are batter games to build space empires other than space shooter with RP elements. There are 5 Houses in this game, a lot of factions there, go play if you want to RP space nation or space government. Outcasts are about space smuggling and crime.

OCs and Sairs offer what is best described as 'unlawful' nations, like Pirate Republics. They are the 5th house, even as vanilla standards go, they're just unlawful entities in most 'house' space.

If you're getting annoyed at people wishing to see progress within a faction while everyone else gets their own progress, I think you're looking at the wrong mod/community.

I think this news is also reflecting the level of development of Outcasts really well. Some old dude modernizing ships and trying to teach maggots to do something like him. And Outcasts seem to be incredibly proud of it, coming from the article's tone.

OUTCAST RAIDING FLEET TO BE UPDATED: MALTA -- Engineers are revamping 100 ships per month over the next two years in an effort to make a new design that will be implemented on the fleet. Casse's 100+ years of experience as an engineer makes him the finest ship designer and builder in all of Sirius. His academy builds new prototypes every semester as he trains a new generation to follow in his footsteps.

I mean, you're pointing out that the OCs have an experienced engineer who has his own academy and is making headline news.
On top of that, that quote can have two meanings:
1, The OCs are able to 'modernize' 2400 ships in 'two' years, presumably mostly fighters, which is a vastly greater than most, if any, current nation on earth manages. Or,
2, The OCs have 2400 ship designs that Casse and his academy are revamping.

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[SnakThree]

Yeah okay.

But this is rule issue. Nobody cares about imaginary lore that is just wild guesses or assumptions. This is an issue because there is no proper explanation why these factions can fly 5kers while other unlawfuls cannot. Make it fair across the board by either cargo.

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[Shiki]

@"The Only Hokan"

I mean you may imagine whatever "progress" you want, mod and devs are not pushing anywhere close to making Outcasts a House and in fact opposing it. It's even been specifically pointed out in recent RCR post

4. The roleplay must not fundamentally transform a faction or house into something completely different and/or unrecognizable. Examples include but are not limited to:

Roleplay that transforms the GMG from a primary focus on gas mining to ship building
Roleplay that attempts to turn one of the Houses into an unlawful entity.
Roleplay which attempts to turn the Outcasts or Corsairs into a recognized legitimate authority.

Most of the things you write are not just coming from your head. There are rules, IDs, inforcards that specify what role you should play with this faction. That's the problem with the Outcasts and their stupidity OP ID, people just come because it's that good and then start doing things that have nothing to do with what faction is about. It is true that you have complete freedom of player RP within server rules, but that road leads to something like MR eventually.

I also agree with @SnakThree entirely here.

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[Monsieur Baguette]

Corporations. A corp is solely a form of collective ownership based on stocks that reflect the share of the owners/investors. Hence, any faction that organises their ownership inRP is a corp, regardless of the origin. GMG corp - easy. OC corp - same. Corp per se is not lore, it is merely a form of ownership.

4. The roleplay must not fundamentally transform a faction or house into something completely different and/or unrecognizable. Examples include but are not limited to:

Roleplay that transforms the GMG from a primary focus on gas mining to ship building
Roleplay that attempts to turn one of the Houses into an unlawful entity.
Roleplay which attempts to turn the Outcasts or Corsairs into a recognized legitimate authority.

Firstly, if you start, say, creating a gov for OC it would be a) not necessarily recognised by someone else; b) not necessarily legitimate as in "allowed and acceptable according to the law" (Oxford Dictionary). OC can have their corps, laws, industries, and yet be a rogue state that is not recognised as a legitimate power. That is only a matter of interpretation.

Whether people like this RP or treat OC as more vanilla - that is a different matter, but as of now no OC faction actually RPs OC as vanilla raiders and all factions go into politics contrary to vanilla lore, be it turning merchant republic style OC into an Empire, or trying to turn it into a Gallic Duchy.

[Shiki]

Corporations. A corp is solely a form of collective ownership based on stocks that reflect the share of the owners/investors.

in discovery it's the class of faction. As in military, police, intel, pirate, terrorist, etc. Each of them is having strong and weak sides. Intel can go anywhere, military factions have battleships, but limited ZOI, corporations have limited fire potential but have 5k transports. Outcast/Sair ID currently is on the matter of merged LSF, Navy and some liberty corp ID in one, imagine that LIBERTY ID. It's either should be nerfed, which is my preference, or split to something like Raider ID (Can go House space with ships up to GBs), Defense ID (Caps, but in Sigmas, Taus and Omicrons only), and smuggle ID(Then yeah, maybe 5kers, but no larger than GB in terms of combat ships, and cannot attack within the house space). Then OC factions would have to choose which they value the most and at least in this way it would be balanced.

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[SnakThree]

Bumpy Dumpy.

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[SnakThree]

Bumpy Dumpy.

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[Erremnart]

I'm fine with the Outcasts and the Corsairs being the only true unlawfuls who can use 5kers. They are the best shipbuilders, they're the richest and the most organized criminal entities in Sirius. They are called 'Scourges of Sirius' for a reason, no other criminal group can ever hope to get at their level. They have resources, manpower and expertise to maintain such vessels when they really need them.

As for the Order, I don't really know the reasoning behind it as all other intels are limited to 4.3kers. Maybe a leftover from the era when the Core and the Order were building their own empires in the Omicrons?

I'd also remove 5kers from corps who aren't shippers in lore.

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Captain Virginia Belle
Task Force Phoenix
Battlecruiser Roanoke
Feedback Thread

[Corile]

Given that sairs have the Essedarius which is 4450 cargo, reducing them to 4,3k wouldn't make much sense.
On the other hand the fact that sairs and OCs can use 5kers but none of the bases they can dock on sell them makes little sense as well.

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Reflections on the Revolution in Gallia
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