Ewww, imagine having to make a POB to destroy a POB. I bet some people here are close to snapping.
Bad jokes aside, the siege platforms mechanic is an... intriguing idea.
But if it were implemented it needs to be very carefully thought out. It might actually bring out more problems than it solves. It might end up being an overpowered force multiplier. Imagine fending off an attack just to wake up the next morning and find out the siege gan(k)g have built dozens of siege platforms...
They would need to be limited somehow (limiting with just cost / ammo / fuel might work but it's not a guarantee). With siege equipment mounted on ships you have only as many battleships as there are people available to log... But they can choose when they attack, and it's usually some ungodly hour.
With NPC / automated siege equipment the attackers are always exposed and then the defenders can just choose when they log to counterattack (and it will be some ungodly hour again).
So in the end very little has been achieved, except now there are more options for interaction / more people needed for both the attack and the defense and potentially even less direct PVP between the groups.
This might also turn out very good, making every siege into a potentially wonderful mix of attacking and defending transports frantically scrambling to bring needed supplies, fighters flying cover for the traders. Cruisers trying to blockade jump holes and cut off supply lines. Jump-ships leading tactical reinforcement convoys and cloak-disrupting scouts trying to find where are they coming from while the Battleships stand guard over the big siege guns. That's the utopian outcome. The reality is that players will find any way possible to exploit it.
Or it might all turn out such a chore that nobody will bother making the effort to do it all and we will have an explosion of POB numbers.
Can you all stop whine about things not related to this thread. This thread is not about Enclave sieging stupid Dublin POBs. This thread is about siege mechanics.
Quote:Just get over with the fact PoBs happen to die
Why attackers rarely get over with the fact that POBs happen not to die? And continue to log for a siege? Maybe they are interested in engaging gameplay? That one, when you shoot static target for hours. I think its definitely their reasoning (sarcasm).
That argument same stupid as POB-owners argument about efforts. Those "efforts" - nothing but shit game design, caused by total ignoring POBs by economy development for ages, while POBs directly involved in it.
Siege mechanic when attackers should sit hours shooting base, and defenders have no other measures but overgank attacker to make him stop bother to log - another schizophasiс dream of the drunk game designer.
Start to read the fucking threads and stop post nonsense. This is not about POB lovers vs POB haters. It is about making acceptable gameplay for everybody.
(06-01-2020, 09:30 PM)Shinju Wrote: Yeah I can definitely show you pictures of docked ships, or people and traders quickly logging off when somebody with known tag hope into their mining system. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Gallia, Liberty, Bretonia, Taus And Omegas. All the same, half of the encounters.
Really? I work both sides of the equation. It works if you have the smarts.
If you are too dumb as a miner not to keep a watch on your radar, then you deserve to die. On the other hand, I have been pirated by stealth and done the same in return. Ambushes work well also. No lazy pirates in my book.
One of my favourite tricks is to use system assets. Fly to Goldgeist and then use the coms and tell the miner pay or die. They run, straight into the trap. Oh, wait. It was destroyed - no more RP then.
I am sorry you are having such a bad experience with pirating. Perhaps a new career?
(06-01-2020, 09:44 PM)LuckyOne Wrote: But if it were implemented it needs to be very carefully thought out. It might actually bring out more problems than it solves. It might end up being an overpowered force multiplier. Imagine fending off an attack just to wake up the next morning and find out the siege gan(k)g have built dozens of siege platforms...
Finally, somebody posted something about possible problems!
That one we here missed indeed. My guess - making siege platform will be impossible without writing hacks into the POB plugin.
If concretely this more easy to make than, for example, EVE alike citadel siege mechanics - then we would probably have a solution to check if there another POB around, which core it is, and allow to deploy an only certain amount of platforms.
I'm not defending any particular base here, but approaching the mining field from the direction where the miner is likely to flee (POB, jump hole, NPC base, etc) is a big brain solution, try using it.
Also, people, stop using the "RP" arguments. Attackers can justify your stuff being divided by zero, too. Your arguments don't cancel out, nor they point out any solution besides hating each other.
Try thinking in the direction of making sieges a) possible to succeed b) possible to counter with a reasonable effort c) less boring. Right now there are BIG problems with b and c, which were pointed out.
(06-01-2020, 12:39 PM)Sava Wrote: So, we've all heard different opinions about whether or not sieges and POB construction require a comparable level of effort, and if the current mechanics is justifiable.
I offer a new approach that would make it a more level playground, introducing a feasible counterplay and consequences for the sieging party.
My proposition is ammo-based siege equipment, with ammo being produced/available only at POBs
I second that.
Can you imagine the RP value of this? Enclave force Goldgeist to surrender thus capturing a commercial base, and then turning the production into building an ammo factory. Exactly why destroying a PoB is wrong. They annex it thus claiming a foothold on Dublin space.
BAF try to regain the territory and you have... wait for it.... RP! PvP RP at that!
Battles around a strategic position. BAF recapture PoB and they in turn produce weapons to prosecute a war.
As ammo needs to be factory built, and ammo is slow to produce, then Enclave gets merchants to deliver essential war supplies to the captured PoB. Raiding parties harassing their supply lines. TONNES of RP. Ongoing, fun, thrilling even.
And guess what? The PoB is NOT DESTROYED!
Ships respawn, PoB's don't.
This is probably one of the coolest ideas to come out of the debate. All Enclave has to do is get on to Discord, set a target and time and BOOM! If they had to build ammo, requiring a factory, then capturing makes sense. Given they would need to truck in supplies (real world) manufacture weapons (real world) load up etc, it would mean that behind the scenes a lot of RP would take place. As it is a long process to build enough materiel then capturing a PoB, forcing an ammo factory to be built (looses a storage unit... meh) and then you have an arms race!
REAL RP, REAL WAR LOGISTICS, REAL RP GENERATION. No need to do anything with bases... just an ammo factory.
And the best part? PoB's are NOT destroyed, NOT dumb stuff.
(06-01-2020, 09:30 PM)Shinju Wrote: Yeah I can definitely show you pictures of docked ships, or people and traders quickly logging off when somebody with known tag hope into their mining system. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Gallia, Liberty, Bretonia, Taus And Omegas. All the same, half of the encounters.
I am sorry you are having such a bad experience with pirating. Perhaps a new career?
Or maybe they would fly to NPC asset which is further away.
I am sorry you are having such a bad experience with PoBs. Perhaps a new career? This question is just a double edged sword
Anton, sieging also generates activity, you know when people log in to destroy attackers, there is probably nothing to make this gameplay better. Proposal to make a PoB to destroy another PoB would just raise the number of PoBs, there is enough of them. Ammo used sieging will just make the siege longer and more boring. I cannot see a problem with current gameplay, take care of your base, make weapon platforms and enjoy almost peace life.
There is no problem currently... as long as the attacker is honorable and stops the siege if beaten.
But if he's stubborn he can basically troll the POB forever. The POB owner needs to truck supplies for the POB to keep it alive. The attacker just needs to sit on his ass and hold RMB.
At least if death cost the attacker more credits he would actually need to get off his ass once in a while and go trade for a bit.
(06-01-2020, 05:25 PM)Grumblesaur Wrote: Attacking a POB is not just an act of PVP, it is an act of RP. The characters captaining those capships have reasons for commencing their assault. Roleplay is not just pages of long-winded babbling on the forums or hours of verbal sniping in system or local chat.
Sender: Leutnant Karl Buhringer Recipient: Red Hessian Reporting Facility Source: ᛖᚴᚨᛚᛋᛖᛚᛋᛖᚴᚨ Subject: Field Report
Frankfurt:
On a routine patrol around the Frankfurt system I encountered a small installation which seemed to be recently constructed. I suggest we do something about this installation. Attached is an image of the base.
(06-01-2020, 05:25 PM)Grumblesaur Wrote: Attacking a POB is not just an act of PVP, it is an act of RP. The characters captaining those capships have reasons for commencing their assault. Roleplay is not just pages of long-winded babbling on the forums or hours of verbal sniping in system or local chat.
(05-28-2020, 03:12 AM)Novascova Wrote:
Sender: Leutnant Karl Buhringer Recipient: Red Hessian Reporting Facility Source: ᛖᚴᚨᛚᛋᛖᛚᛋᛖᚴᚨ Subject: Field Report
Frankfurt:
On a routine patrol around the Frankfurt system I encountered a small installation which seemed to be recently constructed. I suggest we do something about this installation. Attached is an image of the base.