' Wrote:i am against "asking for it" - when you have to ask for it - it is not a conversation of equals ( as the ID would suggest ) - but its more like begging for something that is otherwise denied to you.
all the discussion about alaska is nice and all, but it won t change much. - kicking the BHG out will have an effect on the RPing BHGs.... but not on those that don t care. having ppl to ask will affect those that like to RP that piece of lore - but it won t bother those that don t care.
but whats the result. - open fire on all those those that have not asked? - we get more firefights within factions than we get between opposing factions - have you noticed the trend?
rheinlanders firing on rheinlanders ( in terms of ID ) - outcasts opening fire on other outcasts - and then LSF killing other LSF?
when we are so serious about roleplaying. - what are the consequences of that. - more unrest... . if the Navy fired on so called "rogue" BHGs in alaska - what is the BHG expected to do. ... those that are serious about RPing... cause if we are serious, they get really really pissed at the navy then.... like mad enough to become hostile - as a whole.
if an independent RPed a higher ranking, but solo working agent - possibly even with an alaska background. - but he is not asking the officials to enter ( cause maybe it is them he doesn t trust and not the other way round ) - or maybe he thinks he slipped through unseen - but was seen by someone. what will he do when ppl open fire on him?
there are consequences that are unforseen and unpredictable - and if standards of roleplay were as high about the consequences as they are with restricting game content, we d get a massive pvp enviroment .... and the worst of it... most of the pvp would be within the factions.
//Signed
' Wrote:IMO all LSF should have access to Alaka, considering LSF are an intelligence service and as Jinx mentioned the only place to obtain a LSF ID. I think we are running to far with Alaska restrictions here. Yes Alaska should primarily be defended by the Navy I agree with that. But I dont like us refusing independant Navy or LSF ID holders from Alaska.
The most lucrative Navy missions are available on the 2 prisons in Alaska and we are restricting independant Navy and LSF from access to this? I am more in favour of allowing all LSF and Navy ID holders access. Unless their is a restiction on independant players role-playing Navy or LSF chars then I do not think we should be denying them access to this game content.
Well, I think anyone with proper RP and the proper ID /tag combo should be allowed in. The whole asking for permission in RP does not work, especially in cases like my own, where my crew were operating in Z-21 for awhile now, and suddenly they have to ask permission?
On that note, I've followed that, and have asked permission, but received no response (Besides the one from Kingvaillant, thank you)
Its not only the problem of the official factions though, indies are just as bad, if not worst. Almost every time my crew goes into Z-21 I get harassed by indies who take it upon themselves to guard it from the navy?
So yeah, less restrictions, but implement a system to filter out the capwhores from the RPer, like a code system, which forces people to the forums to read the new code, before they can enter the restricted area.
Iâll carry this flag
To the grave if I must
Because itâs flag that I love
And a flag that I trust
' Wrote:I proposed an Alaskan Defence Force for the sole purpose of defending the stations in Alaska from attackers etc. Either a division of the LN or LSF or a smaller organisation than the LSF but as independant. Unfortunately the faction leaders don't seem to like it.
Seems the LN at least want to keep the entire system for their faction and the LSF faction.
We really do not need another faction around that wants to stake a claim to a system. Not that this was the intent of your post. However, that is what would happen.
There is already an Alaska Defense Force. It is called the LN and the LSF.
' Wrote:well, I believe indies should ASK for access. Since this way it could filtrate the RPers from the Classical oorp capwhore.
Independents should be able to go in there,,, but they would need to ask, if they make their request in the right way (right way = all RP in PM without even using the word 'alaska' once)(Wrong way = asking in system chat to go in and using the word alaska,,,,I see alot of them) they should be allowed in. It should simply be some kind of check point.
The reason why I made this is because I was speaking with reakur on TS and the convo was interesting and he was using some good arguments, so I thought making a topic about it would bring out a good discussion. Seems like the opinion is mainly the same.
I "do not" believe that indie LSF and LN should ask for access. Alaska is not owned by anyone nor is it a guard system. IMO any player with LSF ID or LN ID should be allowed access to Alaska.
You also keep mentioning this conversation on TS....why don't you post some of the interesting arguments here so we can discuss them?
' Wrote:Well, I think anyone with proper RP and the proper ID /tag combo should be allowed in. The whole asking for permission in RP does not work, especially in cases like my own, where my crew were operating in Z-21 for awhile now, and suddenly they have to ask permission?
On that note, I've followed that, and have asked permission, but received no response (Besides the one from Kingvaillant, thank you)
Its not only the problem of the official factions though, indies are just as bad, if not worst. Almost every time my crew goes into Z-21 I get harassed by indies who take it upon themselves to guard it from the navy?
So yeah, less restrictions, but implement a system to filter out the capwhores from the RPer, like a code system, which forces people to the forums to read the new code, before they can enter the restricted area.
This is the major playability problem with restricting Alaska to a great degree. As much as I would love to say every =LSF= and [LN] player is a pillar of virtue, a monolith of RP, having such a professional demeanor that one wonders if they are really members of a real life military or intelligence agency, it just is not the case. We have hotheads. We have newbies. We have children. We have people with very poor English skills. We have people with little exp on discovery. We have people who have posted 5-10 times on the forums. We have people who are not familiar with half the factions on discovery. Many are not given much if any guidance and instruction.
Those with the clearest heads, the mellowest attitudes, the most rule knowledge, the best rp abilities, the most discovery faction diplomacy knowledge, the best language skills, are also the ones that are on the least.
So what winds up happening is a couple fairly newbish like people sit around bossing everyone else around. Cause all they were really told is, Just dont let anyone in here. Or Make sure people ask permission and are respectful.
Its just not a good idea.
If I could be absolutely certain that those in the LN and LSF I trust were always on duty and supervising things online 24/7. Then I might agree with the, Folks need to ask permission. However, that is unrealistic and not something I would burden anyone with.
When we do have problems with Indie LN and LSF. It generally does not need to be handled ASAP. People can make a report about it. Have a discussion with the indie. Have some discourse. It does not need to be, That guy disobeyed my ordersHE IS KOS! Which will be how an Alaska lockdown will end up. Just a bit before we give up on it since it is causing so much drama.
In addition, it will once again cause no end of complaint from all the players who do not want to be in the =LSF= and [LN]. I think it a great disservice to restrict indies. I think it also a disservice to handle indies as guilty until they prove themselves otherwise.
If an indie is in Alaska and Z21 and is not acting like an officer, an agent, and a gentlemen or lady, we can go from there. However, until such a time as they display behavior unbecoming of a Liberty Official we should be giving them our full support.
Quote:Those with the clearest heads, the mellowest attitudes, the most rule knowledge, the best rp abilities, the most discovery faction diplomacy knowledge, the best language skills, are also the ones that are on the least.
The discussion on TS was one that refered to Military Research Facilities that I personally have worked at.
At these locations unless you were a Naval Officer or Naval Researcher/Scientist you were not allowed in.
If the FBI or CIA decided for some stupid reason to atttempt to enter the facility without proper authorization they would be shot, period. A CIA/FBI badge is not going to stop a bullet and those facilities are very heavily guarded. It is not a question of who you are, its a matter of who you are not. If you are not Navy personell then you are not getting in unless escorted by a Naval assigned escort. The FBI has no cause for wanting access to the research that the Navy is working on, neither does the CIA unless it involved a case that they are pursuing. Even then, details of the research are not going to be provided except -maybe- the person that is heading up the research. The prison stations in Alaska could be used to house ANY high risk individual, including captured Order or Nomads. Would the FBI or CIA care about them, no because as long as they are locked up they are not a threat to security. The Navy should have enough firepower to contain any threats to the area without calling for assistance from the local cops. Incursions into Alaska would be a Military matter not a Civil one. This alone removes any reason for the LSF or LP from being involved. If the intruder manages to escape from Alaska then it becomes a matter that the LSF and LP can "assist" in.
' Wrote:The discussion on TS was one that refered to Military Research Facilities that I personally have worked at.
At these locations unless you were a Naval Officer or Naval Researcher/Scientist you were not allowed in.
If the FBI or CIA decided for some stupid reason to atttempt to enter the facility without proper authorization they would be shot, period. A CIA/FBI badge is not going to stop a bullet and those facilities are very heavily guarded. It is not a question of who you are, its a matter of who you are not. If you are not Navy personell then you are not getting in unless escorted by a Naval assigned escort. The FBI has no cause for wanting access to the research that the Navy is working on, neither does the CIA unless it involved a case that they are pursuing. Even then, details of the research are not going to be provided except -maybe- the person that is heading up the research. The prison stations in Alaska could be used to house ANY high risk individual, including captured Order or Nomads. Would the FBI or CIA care about them, no because as long as they are locked up they are not a threat to security. The Navy should have enough firepower to contain any threats to the area without calling for assistance from the local cops. Incursions into Alaska would be a Military matter not a Civil one. This alone removes any reason for the LSF or LP from being involved. If the intruder manages to escape from Alaska then it becomes a matter that the LSF and LP can "assist" in.
Are you asserting that the only organization in the United States that is involved in any sort of advanced/secret/classified R&D is the United States Navy? And that they are the sole possessor of every secret/classified base or facility in the United States?
In my opinion, the LSF do know and are the vanguard of Zone 21. However going into it, only high ranking members with special training and possibly medication to avert and possible blue fuzzy control over them.:crazy:
Prison Station Mitchell
The LCI Mitchell is a prison ship operated by the Liberty Security Force (LSF).
In addition, while there are comparisons between the LSF and the FBI and CIA, they are not the end all be all of what the LSF entails.
As the first few LSF missions show in sp, the LSF escorts traders within Liberty. The LSF hunts down wanted fugitives in Liberty. All of which are shown in sp. The LSF employs independents such as Freelancers to not only do missions for them but to join in tagged LSF missions.
The LSF also conducts its own advanced technology research in addition to collaborating with the Liberty Navy on skunk work style projects.
The Osiris Battleship being the best example, its info card reading:
Osiris
Little is known about the Osiris or its capabilities. What little data there is suggests its connection to a joint LSF and Liberty Navy research project.
As for LSF being allowed admittance to Alaska and other Liberty Navy areas we can still draw parallels between the LSF and CIA.
Not only does the CIA possess secret prisons but some are located on United States Military Bases such as Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan which is run by the 101st Airborne division of the United States Army. The CIA also runs a small facility within Camp Echo which is located inside Guantanamo Bay Detention Center. Camp Echo being a facility within Guantanamo Bay which holds individuals considered of high value to the defense department.
We can continue to use the United States as an example when comparing its organization and structure to Liberty. Let us look at the Official Liberty Factions.
Liberty Police Incorporated
Liberty Navy
Liberty Security Force
Now let us look at some of the Agencies within the United States.
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
Central Intelligence Agency Office of Security (CIA)
Central Intelligence Agency Police
Office of Inspector General (CIAOIG)
Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance Agency (AF ISR or AIA)
Army Military Intelligence (MI)
Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)
Marine Corps Intelligence Activity (MCIA)
National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA)
National Reconnaissance Office (NRO)
Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI)
Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence (OICI)
Office of Intelligence and Analysis (OIA)
Coast Guard Intelligence (CGI)
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)
Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR)
Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence (TFI)
Department of Defense (DOD)
Defense Criminal Investigative Service (DCIS)
Defense Logistics Agency (DODDLA)
Department of Defense Police (DOD Police)
National Security Agency (NSA)
National Security Agency Police (NSA Police)
Office of Inspector General (DODOIG)
United States Pentagon Police (USPPD)
Department of the Air Force
Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI)
Air Force Security Forces
Department of the Army
United States Army Criminal Investigation Division (Army CID)
United States Army Military Police Corps
Department of the Navy
Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS)
Office of Naval Intelligence Police (ONI Police)
Marine Corps Provost Marshal's Office
Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC)
Office of Inspector General
United States Citizenship and Immigration Services
United States Coast Guard (USCG)
Coast Guard Police (CGPD)
Coast Guard Investigative Service (CGIS)
United States Customs and Border Protection (CBP)
United States Border Patrol (USBP)
United States Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)
Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS)
Federal Protective Service (FPS)
United States Federal Emergency Management Agency Police
United States Secret Service (USSS)
White House Police Force - Merged into the USSS in 1930
Transportation Security Administration (TSA)
Department of Justice (USDOJ)
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF)
Drug Enforcement Administration (since 1973)
Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs (1968 - 73)
Federal Bureau of Narcotics (1930 - 68)
Bureau of Prohibition (1927 - 33)
Bureau of Drug Abuse Control (1966 - 68)
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
Federal Bureau of Investigation Police (FBI Police)
Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP)
Office of Inspector General (DOJOIG)
United States Marshals Service (USMS)
Department of State (DOS)
Bureau of Diplomatic Security (DS)
Diplomatic Security Service (DSS)
Office of Inspector General (SDOIG)
Department of Treasury
Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP)
Finance Crimes Enforcement Network (FINCEN)
Internal Revenue Service Criminal Investigations Division (IRSC)
Office of Inspector General (TREASOIG)
Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA)
United States Mint Police (USMP)
United States Treasury Police
Now to have proper realistic RP lets research and designate which Departments are under the direction of the LPI, LN, and LSF. Keep in mind that many if not most have some sort of rivalry. Moreover, many if not most that have rivalry with one another also have numerous joint operations with one another and look to each other for support.