How to Save Discovery Freelancer

[Karlotta]

Education is nothing without intelligence.

I'm confident that 95% of people here and 100% of current disco staff lack the intelligence to last more than 1 year in 2 of the educational facilities I graduated from.

Not saying it to brag, but to make clear the scope of the tragedy of the situation.

Are you that afraid someone might agree with me?

There is a tiny bit of that, because what you suggest would be detrimental to me and every single person I enjoy the company of in disco, and probably to a lot more people as well. This is not a guess, it's after experiencing first hand the very thing that your system wants more of.

However it's mostly because you are distracting from things that actually WOULD help disco improve on many fronts, with very little effort.

[...] New players log in for the first time -> Now what? Let's start from here. Now what? How do you retain them? What can they do and why would they return?

From the perspective of a new player such as myself, being involved in something and feeling like you can make an impact or have an objective to work towards (that isn't just "acquire big boat") is very important; I may have mentioned that somewhere already, but factions - official and otherwise - could, and perhaps should, seek out these new players and offer them a place to stay, learn the ropes and contribute to the faction in turn.
What they could do would depend on the faction in question, of course, but the main point here is engaging and involving them; if left to their own devices, they'll end up going the

You're going the wrong way. Server needs to be set up in a way that new players can do something fun and meaningful without being dependent on factions or external source of information like the forums or discords, at least in the start. What are they supposed to do? Wait for some vet player to log in and then beg for help? No.

Also more GM events where the guy logs on admin and spawns nomad ships from the console is not the way. Game needs to be self-sustainable. Newcomers need to understand the basics enough, right off the bat they need to know its a RP server and that they need to pick a play style, lawful/unlawful, trader, pirate, bounty hunter .. This is the scope that needs ton of working. What can they do as a starting point that is fun, has decent payoff and is solo doable? Current answer is absolutely nothing..

Work on NPC convoy's, missions, meaningful trading system outside ores, bounty hunter and pirate play style payoffs etc..

Finally someone who gets it. (the blue guy, not the person he's quoting)

Please take the time to have a look at the

Ingame Help
Jump Overhaul
Compressed Rules

Feel free to suggest improvements.

It's been stuck waiting for staff to get over their egos for for like 2+ years.

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[Saronsen]

It's been stuck waiting for staff to get over their egos for for like 2+ years.

Missing about 10 years from that

[Shimamori]

Immature whining is all I hear. Its funny how many arguments I make over the last few years about people taking all sorts of stances regardless of empirical evidence.

You are actually making the same arguments over and over again. Trying to practice what I preach, I will provide evidence of how you keep presenting your "Dynamic NPC asset conquest system" here, here, here, and here, excluding the current thread.

Anyway, I used my own 'method' to study our situation by giving it some thought, and I have layed out a clear logic to be tested that can't be, and thats not my fault. I'd test my hypothesis tomorrow if it were up to me.

I must admit I stand corrected, you did empirical data collection in this thread, although the design of the questions does not allow to expand on it further. However, your method of "mind experiment" is barely applicable in Disco, mostly because of the many people involved and it being impossible for you to adequately take into consideration in your mind the varying desires and expectations of the players, hence wishful thinking what other people really want. Mind experiment is barely used outside the field of philosophy. It is indeed hard to test your ideas, but burden of proof is on the claimant. You claim your ideas would improve upon the gameplay - then you should be the most interested in being the most convincing, whether with tests or argumentation. Given the lack of verifiable testing and / or wide agreement with your suggestions, I would conclude so far you are failing with supporting your claims effectively.

I can't believe the effort some go to to fight it too, and you think I'm the one with an ego problem. Nitpicking over that is petty. Education is nothing without intelligence. Think critically about our situation and not just with bias of an RP heavy or pvp heavy player. What I am fairly versed in is logic and making arguments.

I commented previously because of the frivolous way you used the word "scientifically" in regard to your simple deliberations, which was inadequate to me beyond disco, hence comment.

I do believe my arguments are valid and would prove to be sound when it comes to my change suggestions. Its hard not to think about the game and analyze it just by playing for almost a decade. To me, its you that is doing the wishful thinking, and reveal a subconscious opposition through actions that are simple posturing, pressure adding, running interference, etc, where you could otherwise have only observed.

I must agree here with you, engaging in any dispute with you is Sisyphean. You do not even consider you might be wrong, presenting the same arguments over and over again as if being the Messiah bringing the poor fellas of disco the panacea to remedy all issues of the mod, and the close-minded barbarians are rejecting your Holy Word out of spite and not because they find the suggestions not alluring to them. I think, I now need to repent my sins in the Holy Presence of the Prophet of Disco.

Are you that afraid someone might agree with me?

Like Karlotta said previously, I am concerned that should people want a change like that and it be implemented, the mod will be changed to a state that I would not find entertaining to play anymore. Afraid? Not really. Disco is not the only game I can dedicate my time to, so I would simply bounce. People have free will, so do not expect everyone will stick around to try your changes should they be implemented. Disco is not a grand strategy game and should not be turned into one for various reasons, technical being the primary one. If I want grand space strategy with space control, I can always go to Stellaris which has this system as the core of the game from its very start.

So, I'll use it as a general term all I like, I wasn't claiming I took it to a lab and did write ups as I went. I did that all in my head. If you took it that way, I apologize for that. I have often irritated people by demonstrating what can be achieved despite of a lack of recognized acedemia.

Mind experiments, unfortunately, do not apply to such an empirical field as game development. Without testing, you wouldn't know. Even the movies have test groups to see the early version of the film. Very few of those multi-millioner directors can say to the studios and convince the latter "my movie will be a blast! I did its test screening in my head and the audience loved it!". Games similarly also need to be tested, hence closed and open beta tests, etc. It is not even about academia, it is about the so-called "scientific method" which in a simplified version of simple empirical testing is applied everywhere, from people tasting their cooking before turning off the fire to businesses doing test-runs for their products. Unless you are Plato or Socrates, mind experiments won't suffice.

What kind of scientist are you anyways? When did you graduate? From where? You can back up your claim right?

I can back up my claims, but sharing personal information on the internet would be silly, right? You should distinguish proving the ideas, and providing the credentials. It's not that difficult, right?

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[Karmotrine Dream]

You're going the wrong way. Server needs to be set up in a way that new players can do something fun and meaningful without being dependent on factions or external source of information like the forums or discords, at least in the start. What are they supposed to do? Wait for some vet player to log in and then beg for help? No.

Also more GM events where the guy logs on admin and spawns nomad ships from the console is not the way. Game needs to be self-sustainable. Newcomers need to understand the basics enough, right off the bat they need to know its a RP server and that they need to pick a play style, lawful/unlawful, trader, pirate, bounty hunter .. This is the scope that needs ton of working. What can they do as a starting point that is fun, has decent payoff and is solo doable? Current answer is absolutely nothing..

Work on NPC convoy's, missions, meaningful trading system outside ores, bounty hunter and pirate play style payoffs etc..

Why not have both?
This would all help, no doubt, but it's not an either/or situation: the work that could be done dev-side for self-sustainability could be matched by what is done by the players - and players are the ultimate source of renewable content, so to speak, no matter how much work is done to spice up the experience (not that it shouldn't be done, mind you, it absolutely should).

Plus, getting the current playerbase involved and involving takes no dev time; it is something that can be done right now as opposed to waiting for new patches at some indefinite point in the future. Even if you were to help it would still take some time for the proposed changes to be approved and implemented.
Doing both of these things should be the idea, in my opinion.

[Arcana]

I really like the idea for Nomad invasion, it will make players playing together from different parts of Sirius defending the mankind and leave behind their differences. Also the devs could make some Wild infested capital ships NPC's with nomad guns spawining in the systems, some Sunscrashers NPC's boss ships (even player ones) here and there that players could fight together .Some boss capitals NPC's with huge armor and hard hitting weapons, and rare drops when killed.

[Major.]

Bring back the old deadly NPC's. (In other words, just give them player weapons again)

Never ever repeat something like SciData (The early version which was literally pw2 guns)

Remove NavMap on the forum (Yes it's a awesome tool, but it takes the exploring part of the game away, because you literally know where everything is)

Bring back the old 2.0 guns. (So I can be good at PvP again )

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[Backo]

I'm confident that 95% of people here and 100% of current disco staff lack the intelligence to last more than 1 year in 2 of the educational facilities I graduated from.

Lord of Smrt

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[Binski]

Are you that afraid someone might agree with me?

There is a tiny bit of that, because what you suggest would be detrimental to me and every single person I enjoy the company of in disco, and probably to a lot more people as well. This is not a guess, it's after experiencing first hand the very thing that your system wants more of.

However it's mostly because you are distracting from things that actually WOULD help disco improve on many fronts, with very little effort.

What evidence do you have of that?

That just proves to me that you and every single person you enjoy the company of are the few that remain who are ultimately responsible for the decline. Probably more as well? What about prospective future players? Players who would play if there were anything new to do? I haven't been claiming my battle system will be the only thing to save disco, but all suggestions in plus that would freshen this place up. You would undoubtedly benefit from potential new interest in your factions, yet you advocate against it. If Auxo sieged Sabah Shipyard to capture it, do you think anyone would come out to defend it? Maybe join CR? Maybe some would join them as well, maybe that could happen for a lot of factions.

This is literally saying 'I don't like it because it would negatively effect me and my friends' and completely ignores what might be best for everyone else. The issues you typically focus on are superfluous at best. Your arguments make no sense to me. You prefer a dead server where you don't have to do anything more succeed, yet your factions are dying. The backbone to all activity here has been the server and who's online. When that dies, this place is over. It should be obvious at this point that removing the choking rules and adding new activities will work big time to turn that around. There's plenty that have watched and waited for years hoping for change. No one is coming back though until a big change is made in what we allow, and how the game is played at the highest level.

I do believe my arguments are valid and would prove to be sound when it comes to my change suggestions. Its hard not to think about the game and analyze it just by playing for almost a decade. To me, its you that is doing the wishful thinking, and reveal a subconscious opposition through actions that are simple posturing, pressure adding, running interference, etc, where you could otherwise have only observed.

I must agree here with you, engaging in any dispute with you is Sisyphean. You do not even consider you might be wrong, presenting the same arguments over and over again as if being the Messiah bringing the poor fellas of disco the panacea to remedy all issues of the mod, and the close-minded barbarians are rejecting your Holy Word out of spite and not because they find the suggestions not alluring to them. I think, I now need to repent my sins in the Holy Presence of the Prophet of Disco.

Are you that afraid someone might agree with me?

Like Karlotta said previously, I am concerned that should people want a change like that and it be implemented, the mod will be changed to a state that I would not find entertaining to play anymore. Afraid? Not really. Disco is not the only game I can dedicate my time to, so I would simply bounce. People have free will, so do not expect everyone will stick around to try your changes should they be implemented. Disco is not a grand strategy game and should not be turned into one for various reasons, technical being the primary one. If I want grand space strategy with space control, I can always go to Stellaris which has this system as the core of the game from its very start.

Again you have only revealed you are afraid of doing more and have no problem holding others back to suit yourself. Why should you take precedent and not those willing to do more to earn their achievements? You reveal you're just afraid someone else might get credit for a great idea, afraid you'll not cut it against those who do better in game perhaps? To me, its you guys that can't consider that you are wrong and have been for years, hence the continued decline in population. Your only actual purpose can be to fight, suppress, and seemingly demoralize me to try to get me to give up. Nice try! When I can tell that's happening though, I double down. It just tells me I'm right that you are only out to save yourself inconvenience at the expense of the server's health. Hate to say it, but after all these years, I think its you folks that should have trouble finding the place entertaining, and let people like me try to get some good times in again actually doing stuff. Honestly to leave over that is insane and makes me believe you really don't get what I've suggested. You, and others, seem to try to tie it into turning things into a strategy game, but that's a weak argument, we already do sieges, and change base control, it just systemizes around it. If everyone against the suggested changes left tomorrow we'd be much better off within a year, and maybe we'd get a chance to rebuild a not so toxic community.

What kind of scientist are you anyways? When did you graduate? From where? You can back up your claim right?

I can back up my claims, but sharing personal information on the internet would be silly, right? You should distinguish proving the ideas, and providing the credentials. It's not that difficult, right?

Just wondering if you were even born when I first played Freelancer, or in elementary school. Maybe sticking your neck out over this the way you have is what's silly. All of you take your irrational fear that's holding this place down and feel free to leave so you can avoid losing a base to another faction who earned it. You should be willing to sacrifice many bases if it means getting people interested again.

As to doing most of my work in my head, what happens when a brain can churn out the same results as the scientific method most or every time? Personally, its worked with a high degree of accuracy for everything else. I'll trust my guestimates over your lab findings on this topic any day, that is unless your a gaming scientist or an astrophysicist. There's nothing worse than believing something can't be done because you can't do it yourself.

Qui Gon Jinn said "Your focus determines your reality" and I am positive through my own experience that that is absolutely true.

[Toaster]

You're all starting to embarrass yourselves with this pointless back and forth.

@Binski, if you haven't already, do a simple poll ("Yes"/"No") to gauge community interest in your "solution." If the majority of votes aren't in your fix's favor, just drop it.

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Olivia Sable

[Karlotta]

Are you that afraid someone might agree with me?

There is a tiny bit of that, because what you suggest would be detrimental to me and every single person I enjoy the company of in disco, and probably to a lot more people as well. This is not a guess, it's after experiencing first hand the very thing that your system wants more of.

However it's mostly because you are distracting from things that actually WOULD help disco improve on many fronts, with very little effort.

What evidence do you have of that?

The evidence for it being detrimental to me and other people is that I have had my POBs, as well as NPC bases that belong to factions I am part of, fought over in sieges and "official events". I have also seen it happen to other people. Each and every time, it was a toxic crapfest that I and many others never wanted to happen again, reducing out enthusiasm and activity for disco considerably.

My evidence that this ridiculously stupid and never ending conversation is distracting people from addressing the actionable problems, is the fact that I am wasting my time talking to you right now although I know its totally pointless and I could be doing better things. That and the meme threads happening right now.

Do I have to give you names, quotes, links, screenshots, and sworn testimonies?

What's your evidence that suggests that giving the largest mob the ability to take what ever they want is going to have a positive impact for anyone but people who love to screw people on the internet?

That just proves to me that you and every single person you enjoy the company of are the few that remain who are ultimately responsible for the decline.

That just makes you look to me like you either have no idea or dont care how "proving something" actually works, or you dont care and it's just another phrase that you think might sound convincing enough although its totally devoid of substance.

Probably more as well? What about prospective future players? Players who would play if there were anything new to do?

Where's your evidence that they will enjoy having their favorite hang outs taken away because taking stuff away from other people is the only thing some people potentially enjoy in disco?

I haven't been claiming my battle system will be the only thing to save disco, but all suggestions in plus that would freshen this place up. You would undoubtedly benefit from potential new interest in your factions, yet you advocate against it. If Auxo sieged Sabah Shipyard to capture it, do you think anyone would come out to defend it? Maybe join CR? Maybe some would join them as well, maybe that could happen for a lot of factions.

I dont need anyone to generate interest for my factions for me. I'm pretty good at it myself when I'm motivated to do it.

What I really, really, really, really, really, REALLY need is factions like Auxo (Auxo arent the only ones) to stop sieging my POBs, stalking my faction members, and blow us up without a chance while bad mouthing us in their discord circle jerks trying to get as many people to be as horrible as possible to us. Forgive me for believing that your system wont do anything to make that better, but rather the opposite.

This is literally saying 'I don't like it because it would negatively effect me and my friends' and completely ignores what might be best for everyone else.

You have never provided a shred of evidence that this would be best for anyone, not even for yourself.

The issues you typically focus on are superfluous at best. Your arguments make no sense to me.

They wont unless you try, which you clearly dont.

You prefer a dead server where you don't have to do anything more succeed, yet your factions are dying.

They are dying because of reasons that the ability of mobs to take the assets of people they hate will make worse tenfold, and would do absolutely nothing to fix. Because I don't WANT to take anyone's crap away from them, even if I could.

The backbone to all activity here has been the server and who's online. When that dies, this place is over. It should be obvious at this point that removing the choking rules and adding new activities will work big time to turn that around. There's plenty that have watched and waited for years hoping for change. No one is coming back though until a big change is made in what we allow, and how the game is played at the highest level.

You have provided no evidence that anyone at all would enjoy your system enough to "come back". And if people do come back for reasons, the last people I want to come back are those who left because they found they didnt have sufficient ability to screw other people over by taking their stuff.

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