There's a number of things in Discovery that don't make much sense in terms of roleplay but are the way they are due to gameplay reasons. Starting from the simplest of things, like any Navy warship's Captain casually chilling in space talking with Random_Freelancer_347, to more complicated matters such as the system clarification rework that ultimately lead to situations where lawfuls can be shot by neutral entities in systems such as Cortez (that have been RPd for years to be under direct lawful influence) and yet not be able to enforce any form of consequences and being forced to treat said neutral entity 'normally' if it shows up in New York an hour later.
Unfortunately, not everything can be made to both be good in terms of gameplay and also good in terms of roleplay, but I am willing to say there's at least one thing that can be made better in both departments, and that's the subject of this thread.
TLAGSNET (referred to from now on as 'network'). It is mine and everyone else's (players and staff included) understanding on the subject that the network is a tool which a character can use inRPly to an extent. More specifically, it is widely acceptable if a character is to RP around being aware of a ship one or two systems away carrying contraband or having illegal equipment on-board, but it is not acceptable if said character was to instantly apply consequences on the ship in question for having such things on their vessel. This has been RPd (at least by me) as the police officer not depending on the network itself to fine law breakers, but using it as a 'guide' while preferring to use 'live' proof of the law break in order to apply a sanction.
But what if it wasn't that way?
Wouldn't police factions become more popular and more 'worth' to play over their military and intelligence counterparts if the network was a tool you could use to instantly apply consequences to people found breaking laws using it? It's a secret to nobody that has any amount of interactions with characters who smuggle that metagaming through the use of the playerlist is a thing everybody does. There's smugglers that avoid going to a system which they would normally go through or even log off in a place they wouldn't normally log off on just because they see lawfuls waiting for them. People are aware that they're being tracked in the network everytime a tagged police faction character is logged and they change their flight paths as if their character is aware as well.
It is also my understanding that smugglers shouldn't be using tradelanes to get to their destination anyway. You would assume people would seek to be more 'secretive' about smuggling, but they are not simply because of the 'counterplay' that lawfuls have along with of course how easy it is to really confuse someone trying to track you down using the network by taking 'random' turns at tradelane junctions or even exiting a lane early, making it seem like you're cruising to a jumphole when in fact you're just cruising the rest of the way to the jumpgate.
By making the network a tool which characters can use in order to apply any form of sanction on an individual, the grounds are being set for the developers making smuggling more profitable overall as the risks of committing smuggling will be vastly increased. Those who understand the concept of smuggling and do not use jumpgates and tradelanes will be rewarded for their correct decision while those that want to be 'lazy' about it and continue smuggling in 'public' locations will be subject to the police's punishments.
Isn't that what the police should be doing in-game anyway? Wouldn't buffing the only tool making them unique render them a more compelling option over their other lawful counterparts?
Of course, this doesn't 'solve' the problem in it's entirety, one will probably be able to come up with a couple of negatives that will be brought with this if it is implemented, but in my opinion it makes the gameplay experience better for everyone involved.
Police isn't played because it lacks interesting things to do. Same can be applied to Intel factions; there's not much one can do on a police or Intel faction that's not already doable on a Navy ID.
I have already discussed for quite a bit after the system classifications rework to also change the Intel IDs accordingly so Houses can roleplay their former claims over systems (i.e. BIS should receive Inverness, Kusari has Tohoku law line, LSF should receive Omicron Nu laws, KOI can get Sigmas, etc.)
In regards to the Police factions themselves, buffing the TLAGSNET will have absolutely no effect on how many people play them. I believe that interest will be much more easily gained through the addition, even if restricted, of /nodock to indies as well. That, and the fact that the patch coming soon will bring with it significant Police changes that will act as a side-activity.
Lastly, smugglers as a whole and traders, as has been discussed, need to be teached by the community on how to act. Sure, metagaming and all are bad, but nothing's more infuriating to deal with than smugglers coming to a nearby system and simply logging off until the lawfuls are gone. That and the fact that most proceed to make mountains of complaints the second they're caught has resulted in smuggler - lawful interaction being pretty much nonexistent and just a massive joke for both parties.
Aren't the consequences to smuggling just legal 'piracy' of "Pay X mil fine or you go red to lawfuls" on the forums? Basically what you're suggesting is that people would be pirated without even getting an in-game interaction and they will have to keep looking on the forums to make sure they have not missed a fine when they last played because there is the risk the next morning/week/etc their ship will be red to the smuggling drop off point. You're literally asking police gameplay to become a desk job, you park on top of Newark and begin parsing all the TLAGSNET data without ever taking off to actually do a patrol, because why would you need to - you can do your fine gameplay without even the other side knowing you've found them. So instead of having a reason to fly the ship, you'll have a reason to log the ship and "afk" in space, collecting data and collecting money on the forums via fines. How would that be any more compelling and fun way to play the game for both sides?
TLAGSNET is a tool to enable interactions between police and criminal chars by allowing the police to know where to go to encounter the criminal.
If police factions were allowed to apply RP consequences on a smuggler without even interacting with said smuggler, then it will only result in even fewer people bothering with smuggling. It will force smugglers to rely on cruise and jumpholes, massively increasing travel time with nothing to do while they just F2 from waypoint to waypoint. And, since jumpholes are excluded from TLAGSNET, police players will never know that there is a smuggler inbound and will therefore miss out on even just a potential interaction. Instead, we'll have police players just sitting still in one location, watching TLAGSNET, and writing forum comms at the rare smuggler they detect on TLAGSNET. Riveting.
Police (and intel) faction desperately need something to make them more attractive to play, but buffing what they are allowed to do with TLAGSNET isn't it.
The point is that smugglers should not be visible on the network in the first place. Knowing that your car trunk is automatically scanned when you enter the highway, you wouldn't drive on it either just because it's faster. Smugglers should avoid main traffic. Of course, that would make it take much longer. In return, smuggling should be much more profitable than it is now.
Personally, I would have no problem with smuggling being more profitable than normal trading. In the best case, police factions are more attentive and seek out players, leading to more activity and chases. In the worst case, smugglers make a bunch of money with no consequences, which I would have no problem with at all. I see this as "punishment" for inactive cops. I don't think it's fair that smugglers are not being looked at in this discussion. Why can't we buff smugglers so significantly that it doesn't seem too blatant to punish people based on the network alone?
Currently, both parties are in an improvable state. THE police are not allowed to use their network to the fullest, even if they are given the information they need. Smugglers take a higher risk, but do not get enough money in return.
But I don't believe that in a broken system we should leave things as they are just because by improving one aspect, another aspect would be even more broken. Instead, we should improve both sides. I don't want to sit on Newark and play the game based only on the network, but I also don't want to deliberately look the other way and accept smugglers comfortably delivering their contraband via monitored trade routes.
Ideally, I would be able to punish people via the network, but I wouldn't get the chance because they are sneaky and don't show up at all.
(05-17-2022, 10:46 AM)Shelco Wrote: I don't want to sit on Newark and play the game based only on the network, but I also don't want to deliberately look the other way and accept smugglers comfortably delivering their contraband via monitored trade routes.
Have you considered trying to catch them and having an in-game interaction?
My real issue with the proposed system isn't even that it becomes too easy/boring for cops or too hard for smugglers, it is that it would literally promote a gameplay meta where ingame interactions are not even needed or encouraged and interaction will be offloaded to forum "gameplay".
TLAGSNET is already a good addition if you want to find no-names and untagged ships to interact with - either by scanning their loadout and seeing their faction guns or by seeing contraband in case of traders/smugglers. It already allows you to seed out people you don't need to bother trying to catch for people that are your job to deal with. It is an enhanced Player Online list to allow you to weed out the interesting encounters worth pursuing from trader1234 carrying Helium that you would greet, scan and leave to his business.
(05-17-2022, 12:26 PM)Backo Wrote: Have you considered trying to catch them and having an in-game interaction?
My real issue with the proposed system isn't even that it becomes too easy/boring for cops or too hard for smugglers, it is that it would literally promote a gameplay meta where ingame interactions are not even needed or encouraged and interaction will be offloaded to forum "gameplay".
TLAGSNET is already a good addition if you want to find no-names and untagged ships to interact with - either by scanning their loadout and seeing their faction guns or by seeing contraband in case of traders/smugglers. It already allows you to seed out people you don't need to bother trying to catch for people that are your job to deal with. It is an enhanced Player Online list to allow you to weed out the interesting encounters worth pursuing from trader1234 carrying Helium that you would greet, scan and leave to his business.
Yes, that is what you should do, of course. But this doesn't take into account some people F1'ing if they feel threatened or tjhe awkwardness of meeting the smuggler after they sold their cargo with you knowing what that cargo was and possibly other scenarios that I don't have on my mind right now.
In an ideal case you'd not even see the smuggler on the net and therefore have no reason to do anything on the forum. If smugglers cared about being secretive, why not stay away from monitored traffic? It's an inRP argument for the most part.
Whether we change TLAGSNET or not is less relevant anyhow. I personally prefered more smugglers and more money for said smugglers. That is a more important issue.