Consultation: Revised server rules

[jammi]

Updated the post with some changes:

• Changed 'Can attack Alien ships' to 'Can attack Alien IDs'.
  
• Corrected commodity names in Alien Materials list.
  
• Added Uncharted materials to Alien Materials list.
  
• Added gunboats to ship classifications.

@Demonic - OF rules are hyperlinked at the bottom of the main rules post, and will be in their own thread in the faction rules area.
@Tenshi Kuonji - Clauses about self defence are unnecessary. Obviously if someone is already shooting at you, you always have the right to shoot back. What counts as an Ally is already in the definitions section.

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News article library, feedback and content requests.

[Czechmate]

so anyone can shoot aliens anywhere now even on caps :O

[Fab]

I hate the need to link the "rules clarification" thread. if rules need to be clarified, it means they're not well written. I hope that thread is atomized.

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[R.P.Curator]

1. General Conduct:

1.0 - Be friendly!
1.2 - Cheating or exploiting game rules or mechanics is not allowed.

2. ID and Combat Rules:
2.0 - Every ship must have only one ID equipped (mounted), and play in a way that represents the role of that ID.
2.2 - If your ship is destroyed or you dock during a hostile player encounter, you must leave the system without cargo and not enter the system or attack anyone involved in the encounter for 1 hour. Trade Ships docking during a hostile player encounter are not considered to have been destroyed and can un-dock with cargo at their own risk.
2.3 All IDs Can:

> Attack IDs that are hostile/enemies to their ID/Faction

> Attack in self-defense If Attacked

2.4 - Terms used in IDs:

"Allies" - Ships of the same non-Generic affiliation or ID, Ships defined as your ID's allies on the in-game faction rep sheet, or Ships you are currently flying in group with. You cannot be in group with hostile ID ships .

Define Offensive combat role - only rule about this is Transports with CDs mounted.

"Alien Materials" - Artifacts, Low-Grade Artifacts, Xeno Relics, Nomad Power Cells, Nomad Remains, Azurite Gas

Including Uncharted Materials in this category will give a free fire advantage to certain factions. The cargo is subject to piracy rules while within Uncharted system and outside (depending on ID). They need to be defined as a different category of materials (since they are not of Nomad provenience) and be subject to different rules. This is work, but the other side is Order, Core, Auxo and all House Intelligence agencies going shooting people who come out of the Uncharteds carrying these.

"Piracy" - a reasonable credit or cargo or RP demand issued to a ship which can be attacked if an agreement isn't reached. A Credit demand must not exceed 50% of trader cargo value. A Cargo demand must not exceed your ship/group cargo limit. A RP demand can represent a question, conversation or distribution of certain cargo. Empty ships can still be pirated - 10 Sirius Credits per Cargo unit or RP demands

.
3.0

Siege Declarations last for one week

- with the current system, 2 hours of vulnerability over 2 weeks and useless defensive platforms, odds are not on the defenders side, as seen in the live test non toxic Kansas siege.

2.3 CLARIFICATION REQUIRED:

When outside ZOI, attack any ship to defend Allies, except while flying Cruisers, Battlecruisers, or Battleships.

Post edited as per Wildkins add.

[Wildkins]

2.3 CLARIFICATION REQUIRED:

Attack any ship to defend Allies, except while flying Cruisers, Battlecruisers, or Battleships.

>> While outside ZOI!? While in ZOI!? Once I fly a Cruiser or above, I can't defend my allies?!

While outside ZOI. The rule directly below allows anything to attack any ship to defend Allies, while within ZOI.

[Karlotta]

I hate the need to link the "rules clarification" thread. if rules need to be clarified, it means they're not well written. I hope that thread is atomized.

Rule clarifications should be put into spoilers under the related rule.

As for the OP...

The server rules should be written in a way that will allow for them to be directly accessible ingame, as a simple text copy-paste, with the forum version having links attached to other words than "here" (words like "in the appropriate forum thread").

Any rule re-write that fails to achieve this is half-arsed and another failure. No more different rule version on forum and ingame already. Jesus.

The original Help System (check my sig) already included the unified rule rewrite I did 3 years ago (also check my sig), which staff were unable to process or engage with in any manner due to issues with their egos. Since you once again deliberately chose to ignore the points already put forward several times, which will unambiguously improve the rules, there probably is still no point in trying to engage with you guys in any topic-based factual manner anyway, but...

I'll still point out several problems with your version (which you'll probably ignore). There is more than I'll list in this first post, but writing even this short version is most likely a waste of time, judging from past experience.

- Starting the rules with "Don't be a dick" immediately lets every newbie know that disco has community issues that the staff is unable to deal with, let alone deal with in a non-infantile manner. It also provides 0 useful information. Also, if you look at things that some of the "top echelons" of disco consider being a dick and not being a dick, its quite comical. What we really need is that those people re-learn what "being a dick" means. For example, there are people at the top of disco staff who flew around in groups of 2-4 aces that few people could beat, they picked on noobs and graciously offered that only 1 of the aces will "duel" him. One of them beat the crap out of the victim while the others mocked the lack of skill. They dont consider that being a dick, they consider it "sportsmanship" because they dont use numbers or ship class, only "skill". If someone tries to help the victim, or it tried to run, they called that "being a dick for denying a blue", and number-ganked the "dick" for days to "teach him not to be a dick". Until the guys in your staff make a serious commitment to rethinking that kind of behavior, having something like "don't be a dick" or "be excellent" in the rules is a farce, and disco will never grow in population again, ever, no matter what else you do. And frankly it wouldnt deserve to.

- Start the rules with the most important information, which is that it's a role playing game and you need need to role play in english.

- the first section of the rules should also include the most important information about bounties/hiring and POBs, which is needed for those who only start playing on the server without forum related things like forum bounties or POB construction: That you cant attack POBs without declaration (is that rule even needed anymore with vulnerability being turned on and off?), and under what circumstances someone can be hired on the spot. Keep the things needed for POB construction and forum bounties in separate sections, that only people who want to build pobs or place forum bounties need to read.

- official faction rules are still a mess. They need to be made shorter and make it clear for OFs that they have a responsibility to help and make the game playable for their members and indies alike. More than "you can tell indies to stand down to balance fights", which only led to OFs telling indies to stand down to benefit their friends and "important people", which leads to more squabbling not less.

- still many useless repetitions of words that make things long and cluttered.

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User was banned for: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...tid=200950
Time left: (Permanent)

[TheSauron]

- Start the rules with the most important information, which is that it's a rule playing game

Hm.

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One MD Admiral

[Fab]

I might suggest an addendum to the POB rules:

• Participating offensively, directly or indirectly, in a siege with an ID not explicitly stated as attacker in the Siege Declaration thread is not allowed.
  

Nothing stop players from logging, let's say, nomad dreadnoughts to mop up a pob's defense and then re-log with their proper """in-rp""" siege ships, or participating with unrelated factions, therefore effectively bypassing any in-rp justification. Also, this line stops factions that has nothing to do with the siege from participating - as it should be.

I can cheat this system with this example:
Declare a justified siege on my faction with cruiser access at most -> defenders log -> I log faction with dreadnought access, completely unrelated to the first justification -> I mop up the defenders -> I log the first faction and finish the base off.

another suggestion:

• Valid Siege Declarations on a base that is already under siege will have their two weeks time period expire at the same time as the oldest valid Siege Declaration.
  

this line stops players from extending the siege declaration past the intended two week period.

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[Earl Campbell]

I would like to make a formal plea to the staff with regards to this matter.


That the wording "for everyone to be excellent to one another" not be removed


from

"1. General Conduct:

The intent of these rules is for everyone to be excellent to one another and to use common sense. Keep fair play in mind and have consideration for others. It's a game, and nothing is gained or lost save for the experience. Credits can be re-earned and ammunition replenished. If you become infuriated, step away. If you make a mistake, apologize."

To me the phrasing is nostalgic and elegant.

* It's not so short that it comes off as goofy or witless

* Nor is it a long condescending demand.

It's "be excellent" or "treat others with the dignity deserving of another person playing and enjoying the game with you"


I would also like to cite the recent "Three Amigos" incident as to the importance of this phrasing.

[R.P.Curator]

1. General Conduct:

1.0 - Be friendly!
1.2 - Cheating or exploiting game rules or mechanics is not allowed.

2. ID and Combat Rules:
2.0 - Every ship must have only one ID equipped (mounted), and play in a way that represents the role of that ID.
2.2 - If your ship is destroyed or you dock during a hostile player encounter, you must leave the system without cargo and not enter the system or attack anyone involved in the encounter for 1 hour. Trade Ships docking during a hostile player encounter are not considered to have been destroyed and can un-dock with cargo at their own risk.
2.3 All IDs Can:

> Attack IDs that are hostile/enemies to their ID/Faction

> Attack in self-defense If Attacked

2.4 - Terms used in IDs:

"Allies" - Ships of the same non-Generic affiliation or ID, Ships defined as your ID's allies on the in-game faction rep sheet, or Ships you are currently flying in group with. You cannot be in group with hostile ID ships .

Define Offensive combat role - only rule about this is Transports with CDs mounted.

"Alien Materials" - Artifacts, Low-Grade Artifacts, Xeno Relics, Nomad Power Cells, Nomad Remains, Azurite Gas

Including Uncharted Materials in this category will give a free fire advantage to certain factions. The cargo is subject to piracy rules while within Uncharted system and outside (depending on ID). They need to be defined as a different category of materials (since they are not of Nomad provenience) and be subject to different rules. This is work, but the other side is Order, Core, Auxo and all House Intelligence agencies going shooting people who come out of the Uncharteds carrying these.

"Piracy" - a reasonable credit or cargo or RP demand issued to a ship which can be attacked if an agreement isn't reached. A Credit demand must not exceed 50% of trader cargo value. A Cargo demand must not exceed your ship/group cargo limit. A RP demand can represent a question, conversation or distribution of certain cargo. Empty ships can still be pirated - 10 Sirius Credits per Cargo unit or RP demands

.
3.0

Siege Declarations last for one week

- with the current system, 2 hours of vulnerability over 2 weeks and useless defensive platforms, odds are not on the defenders side, as seen in the live test non toxic Kansas siege.

2.3 CLARIFICATION REQUIRED:

When outside ZOI, attack any ship to defend Allies, except while flying Cruisers, Battlecruisers, or Battleships.

Post edited as per Wildkins add.

Consider the post quoted as an addendum to the existing rules, use what's useful in it to update the existing rules.

As to simplifying the existing rules, I recommend not to because Discovery Freelancer just got launched on Nexus mods and an upgrade - Fire and Fortune - this means new players will come in and veterans might give it another go thus:
1: The existing rules are a 10 minutes read. They should be updated and given some intended examples.
2: The rules need to cover as many scenarios as possible so the new, existing and returning players commit as few mistakes as possible (simplifying them will not help with this)
3: Lack of admins on server
4: High workload for existing admins
5: Toxic community, with staff members being at the forefront of it - see Kansas siege. Staff members should be the 1st ones to uphold and enforce the rules, not the 1st ones to bend, abuse and skirt them.
6: New and returning players clashing with the existing community will generate friction, therefore complaints and work for admins. A detailed and explanatory set of rules will reduce this - the current update on 08.11.2023 is quite good at that - while a simplified version will allow for 2 things: existing community to bend, circumvent or abuse the rules (as they are currently doing) and new players to make mistakes, thus returning to points 2-3-4.

You got visibility, and new players. Even some of the old players are returning. Time to choose: visibility turns into "That place is toxic" or "Come let's try this out! Its free and fun! You can mine, build, trade and shoot NPCs or other people!" Currently, I've been online for most of the time in the past 2 months. The balance tips to "toxic".