(11-26-2023, 12:52 PM)Haste Wrote: Stop trying to win your conflicts on the forums and win them in-game instead.
game's fucked when you can't play your favorite faction because some smartasses can abuse the unfair protection granted by rules/ID to get anything they want for free in detriment of others.
"Log another faction that can pew corsairs" - no shit, everyone's that isn't a corsair is already logging corsairs to get the shit they want for free. It's an endless, vicious, busted, utterly retarded gameplay loop.
(11-26-2023, 08:17 AM)Deucalion Wrote: only DTR able to mine , indies would be destroyed if they don't sell to your pob ?
where in god's name did you read that? are you reading the same thing as I?
(11-26-2023, 02:33 PM)Fab Wrote: ame's ***** when you can't play your favorite faction because some smartasses can abuse the unfair protection granted by rules/ID to get anything they want for free in detriment of others.
(11-26-2023, 12:45 PM)Ravenna Nagash Wrote: XR aren't as easily mined as they used to be and are much more of a time-sink. You could also do some trade negotiations, RP it out, just like you did with us not long ago and got yourself a trading permit.
It's not about me, per se, me and mine are the ones doing the transporting, not the final buyers, we're only looking at the difference between your price and what the buyers are willing to pay. What I wanted to do is to highlight the fact, that this particular matter is mostly the quetion of price / convenience balance, pretty much the same as for example your standard online piracy. With how many stuff is needed for the PoB crafted devices, pretty much everyone is probably willing to offload some of the shipping (and mining) to a third party, provided the price doesn't go too high. How high the price has to go for the expenses to be too much for the convenience they provide is individual, but it's safe to safe the price of the relics is currently too high and the buyers simply feel like they won't make any profits if they buy from you.
You have to remember that unless they build it for themselves, they need to be able to sell what they build, the same way I need to be able to offer price for shipping they're willing to pay. Not everyone can afford devices costing 10 or more million (bilion in old currency) so the crafter might feel pushed into circumventing your system just to be able to offer a reasonable price for the device he produces, especially if he wants to also gain some money out of it.
Simply put, if the prices were lower, people wouldn't feel the need to go behind your back, because it wouldn't be worth the effort. People don't do it to spite you, they're doing it to keep their business profitable. If you feel like you can't go lower, how about getting rid of some PoBs to cut costs amigo? It's not like you need more than the one. And if you feel like you can't go lower because the NPC price is too high, then go after econ devs to do something about it.
(11-26-2023, 02:53 PM)Demonic Wrote: ... Simply put, if the prices were lower ...
lets do calculations:
in 30 days, Reincarnation costs: 7.902.000 credits in Repairs + FOW (With advanced hydroponics) to water miners and supply traders.
To cover such costs in the suggested "good" price of 275 per relic, I'd need to sell 28735 relics to cover RFOW costs.
now we're at stake 0. after these relics, I get 25 credits per relic sold.
If I manage to sell 100.000 (max stock) relics in a month, that's 1.781.625 profit. in a month. which is much, much worse than trading.
hell, one million relics would get me above one billion (old cash, 10 mil now) of profit. one million relics. it takes 10 minutes to acquire 600 relics. it would take what, 277 man hours to acquire one million relics?
it isn't profitable, nor worth any effort. I hope these calculations are correct.
(11-26-2023, 03:37 PM)Fab Wrote: lets do calculations:
in 30 days, Reincarnation costs: 7.902.000 credits in Repairs + FOW (With advanced hydroponics) to water miners and supply traders.
To cover such costs in the suggested "good" price of 275 per relic, I'd need to sell 28735 relics to cover RFOW costs.
now we're at stake 0. after these relics, I get 25 credits per relic sold.
If I manage to sell 100.000 (max stock) relics in a month, that's 1.781.625 profit. in a month. which is much, much worse than trading.
hell, one million relics would get me above one billion of profit. one million relics. it takes 10 minutes to acquire 600 relics. it would take what, 277 man hours to acquire one million relics?
it isn't profitable, nor worth any effort. I hope these calculations are correct.
(11-26-2023, 03:37 PM)Fab Wrote: lets do calculations:
in 30 days, Reincarnation costs: 7.902.000 credits in Repairs + FOW (With advanced hydroponics) to water miners and supply traders.
To cover such costs in the suggested "good" price of 275 per relic, I'd need to sell 28735 relics to cover RFOW costs.
now we're at stake 0. after these relics, I get 25 credits per relic sold.
If I manage to sell 100.000 (max stock) relics in a month, that's 1.781.625 profit. in a month. which is much, much worse than trading.
hell, one million relics would get me above one billion of profit. one million relics. it takes 10 minutes to acquire 600 relics. it would take what, 277 man hours to acquire one million relics?
it isn't profitable, nor worth any effort. I hope these calculations are correct.
I have no idea what this has to do with your re-worked Laws, but seeing you brought it up about costs.
Most POBs that produce items/commodities don't generally do it for big profits.
Before the patch, there were a lot of Bases that bought and sold Ore for the same price. The Owners paid for the Repair Materials, Fuel & FOW out of their own pockets.
Making of 'items' cost a lot of time and if the POB Owners just went to hauling Ores, then they would have made a lot more credits.
Now, to your costs:
Monthly Outgoings = 7.902 million.
It takes 10 minutes to acquire 600 credits and get it back to your Base.
So for 80 minutes work you can mine 4800 XRs.
Those XRs that sell at 99% of NPC Bases for 247 credits.
4800 x 247 = 1.1856 million
That is less than 7 trips a month to pay for your Upkeep, or 53 mining trips.
So if you mine for 20 minutes a day, you more than pay for your Bases upkeep, or even 1 x 80 minute session every 4 days.
'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are' Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person
(11-26-2023, 02:33 PM)Fab Wrote: game's ***** when you can't play your favorite faction because some smartasses can abuse the unfair protection granted by rules/ID to get anything they want for free in detriment of others.
"Log another faction that can pew corsairs" - no *****, everyone's that isn't a corsair is already logging corsairs to get the ***** they want for free. It's an endless, vicious, busted, utterly flower gameplay loop.
I'm sorry but this really comes across as Yazov's earlier point ringing true; this doesn't sound like you're trying to maintain a Corsair monopoly, as these are, indeed, Corsairs mining the relics. This really sounds like you're trying to manipulate laws to powergame a DTR monopoly. If other people want to put in time and effort to mine materials they need for their POBs, then cool, they can do so imo. You're basically trying to thinly veil forcing people to use you as their only sell point, and then claim it's inrp because anyone not doing so is 'undermining the Corsair economy' or some such.
If I really have the wrong read on this, then I apologise, but the fact you're using mathematics to run your own POB at a profit to justify this really solidifies my viewpoint.
[03.07.2024] LNS-Beast***: we can do this every day but you have to buy bigger stronger ships...and i'll help you
I had planned a role play where i SRP a station in omega 55 using biodome tech from zoner colony ship to transfer zoner biodome tech
to station to feed DTR and TBH with food some members in DTR new of this.
I had 4 Bases i managed alone and found a way to make them run profitable.
I was accused of OORP when it was not the case and took a forced 4 month vacation for something i did not commit in the way i was falsley accused of just because i defended a friend that was a DTR member if i just left his base alone to be destroyed by the "then base haters" we not dare mention or are allowed to mention this again.
Model of the story when DTR called for help and even while i was not a DTR member anymore i still helped and got kicked in the teeth for it.
When i came back my home system Omega 55 was destroyed My rp was destroyed that took me years to build up after work each day spent long hours putting in the effort. Just to find when i returned that by some take over station story of freeport 9 blah blah blah and now corsairs and zoners sit on opposite sides of the fence snarling at each other through the fence.
Everything i worked for and towards gone......
I started fresh rebuilding every thing i lost all the trades i showed to a friend on discord with screenshots where ever i stop on a station and you look for the best buy or sell price i found that most commodities best buy from transporter price is in gallic space coinsedance or not so anything that can be baught almost on a station that a transporter would could should normally carry sells for best price in gallic space right.
just small thing i noticed so corsairs can trade with gallic stations and planets easy right kinda neutral etc..... and can get resources easy you just need the willing man power.
there is also income in trading we used to do it a lot of times as faction event in DTR all jump in sair transports and see who can deliver the most relics to npc base
like you mentioned to other players they can rp obtaining mining licence etc from dtr for xeno relics right back at you you can also rp with other factions or indie's to supply and upkeep your base if you cant cut it then maybe you doing something wrong somewhere i feed 2 bases and trade alone and im 1 person i cant believe that a whole faction sole income is based on one commocity and that one commodity has so much power over 1 faction.
Clearly you doing something wrong if you cant make the books balance but when you start over charging on a single product you kill that whole product line in business economics version 1.1
If you cant cut it homes just ask for help instead of killing the indies let them work for you instead hand hand off maybe rewards on point system i dont know get inventive...
Anyway try to have fun when this become 2nd job or life it gets boring
Take care and be blessed and remember to ask for help if you get stuck
We might not sit at the same table but all us freelancers is 1 community
(11-26-2023, 04:30 PM)Levenna Wrote: This really sounds like you're trying to manipulate laws to powergame a DTR monopoly.
Corsair ''laws'' are literally RP fluff, they are just guidelines, given the way the Corsair ID works. There's no way to ''powergame it'' because there's ID limitations. Before people start crying ''Oh the poor indies'', they should look at facts. DTR has never ordered indies anything in the last 2 years since our existence. Nor have we ever FR5-ed another faction or indie. On the contrary, when I was leading DTR, we even tried to involve other non-official factions in our government. We've also supplied XR for about 2 years to whoever wanted them.
(11-26-2023, 04:30 PM)Levenna Wrote: You're basically trying to thinly veil forcing people to use you as their only sell point, and then claim it's inrp because anyone not doing so is 'undermining the Corsair economy' or some such.
If someone is bypassing a faction entirely by making a disposable ship from the same faction in order to avoid any consequences - that's the literal definition of power gaming / metagaming. What's the proper recourse in this situation? Make an alt Core/OC so I can shoot at them? I asked genuinely how can one counter-play that within the rules of the game. Admittedly, I hardly play Freelancer these days, but I am yet to see any RP deal being proposed by any faction, or anyone even attempting at bargaining/negotiating inRP or otherwise. I dunno, maybe I am old-fashioned but I like to negotiate with people - that's kind of the whole point of an RP server.
Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.
(11-26-2023, 05:01 PM)Ravenna Nagash Wrote: Corsair ''laws'' are literally RP fluff, they are just guidelines, given the way the Corsair ID works. There's no way to ''powergame it'' because there's ID limitations. Before people start crying ''Oh the poor indies'', they should look at facts. DTR has never ordered indies anything in the last 2 years since our existence. Nor have we ever FR5-ed another faction or indie. On the contrary, when I was leading DTR, we even tried to involve other non-official factions in our government. We've also supplied XR for about 2 years to whoever wanted them.
Laws are only fluff if you don't use them. The laws, as written, are effectively a casus belli against anyone who you deem to be undermining the economy. Fab is also in this thread using POB profits to justify said laws. That kind of adds up, to me.
(11-26-2023, 05:01 PM)Ravenna Nagash Wrote: If someone is bypassing a faction entirely by making a disposable ship from the same faction in order to avoid any consequences - that's the literal definition of power gaming / metagaming. What's the proper recourse in this situation? Make an alt Core/OC so I can shoot at them? I asked genuinely how can one counter-play that within the rules of the game. Admittedly, I hardly play Freelancer these days, but I am yet to see any RP deal being proposed by any faction, or anyone even attempting at bargaining/negotiating inRP or otherwise. I dunno, maybe I am old-fashioned but I like to negotiate with people - that's kind of the whole point of an RP server.
I'm sorry but I don't believe in "counterplay" to gaining a commodity that's mandatory for certain parts of the game's economics. That speaks to a mindset which is exactly what I'm worried about, frankly. You can provide the commodities for credits, sure, if people don't want to pay you, they don't have to and they can put in the time and effort themselves. Yes, RP is great, but frankly every time I meet a DTR player in-game it's either oorp, "hi", silence, or /1 /2, which I don't think sets a great precedent for getting people to negotiate with you.
[03.07.2024] LNS-Beast***: we can do this every day but you have to buy bigger stronger ships...and i'll help you
![[Image: B.png]](https://i.ibb.co/d5kxVgv/B.png){kind=small}
![[Image: Levenna.gif]](https://sig.grumpybumpers.com/host/Levenna.gif)
