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St.Denis · 02-13-2024, 04:23 PM,

Good afternoon.

I very rarely appear in OF Feedback Threads, but I feel I must on this occasion.

I know the Server Rules have been dumbed down a lot and maybe the Rules on Piracy have been removed so that more 'blues' can be collected, but hopefully they haven't. If it has, then I can see the Server Population declining even further.

Asking a 5ker to drop all of his cargo and telling him to leave then system, when in a GB (can't hold all the ore of a 5ker) wasn't originally allowed. The GB said that 23 belonged to IMG and when the 5ker tries to RP, saying that OCs and BMM say the same thing, it was destroyed.

Not great RP from a long standing OF.

And once it had killed the Transport, it headed straight to the Mining Field where a LF Mining Ship was sat with Cannister and 25 units of ore in its hold. It wasn't shooting any ore, nor was there any ore in space.

Quote:[13.02.2024 14:24:12] IMG|: GMS ship you will halt your mining operation and leave the system now.
[13.02.2024 14:24:42] GMS|: I am sat here admiring the view
[13.02.2024 14:24:44] IMG|: You have ore in your cargo.
[13.02.2024 14:25:17] IMG|: Stop moving right now!

It was asked to leave and when it tried to leave, it was continually CD'ed. Then came another demand, more CDs and a chase ensued.
Once it was worked out that the GB wasn't going to catch the LF, it changed to something more conducive to catching and killing a LF.

Is this the way the revitalised IMG| are going to act in the future?

I have no problem, nor do the other Members of GMS|, with piracy and some RP along the way, but looking for 'blues' is not conducive to:

Quote:1.0 - Don't be a dick. It's a game, try to keep it fun for everyone playing it. Behavior that falls within the technical letter of the rules but not the spirit won't be tolerated.

I know that that Rule is open to interpretation and is possibly being used as a 'cover all' option, but I can say that neither of my Faction Members 'enjoyed' the encounter.

'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are'
Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person

StellarViss · (This post was last modified: 02-14-2024, 07:37 PM by StellarViss.)

Good evening St.Denis,

I have read your post and this will be my response as the IMG first in command:

1. This piracy was not done to get so called "blues" but as roleplay as the GMS ships were in Tau-23 mining Niobium ore (both ships had the ore in there cargo). IMG sees GMS as a competitor in the mining industry hence your ship was offered to drop the cargo and leave the system if the ship listened to the demand dropped the ore and left system it wouldn't have been destroyed.

Quote:[13.02.2024 15:17:30] IMG|Quarterback: Halt.
[13.02.2024 15:17:35] GMS|Gallia.Big.Waves: Bonjour !
[13.02.2024 15:18:07] IMG|Quarterback: Who let you mine in our system?
[13.02.2024 15:18:26] GMS|Gallia.Big.Waves: your sector ?
[13.02.2024 15:18:48] IMG|Quarterback: Indeed all of the Tau-23 is IMG space.
[13.02.2024 15:19:11] GMS|Gallia.Big.Waves: funy parth is the Outcast told me the same thing
[13.02.2024 15:19:27] GMS|Gallia.Big.Waves: and so did the Bretonians
[13.02.2024 15:19:29] IMG|Quarterback: Yea I don't care for the sass.
[13.02.2024 15:19:51] IMG|Quarterback: Drop the cargo and leave the system.
[13.02.2024 15:20:09] IMG|Quarterback: You will have only one warning.
[13.02.2024 15:20:13] GMS|Gallia.Big.Waves: you like me to drop the cargo and leave the sector why ?
[13.02.2024 15:20:26] IMG|Quarterback: Last warning.
[13.02.2024 15:20:49] IMG|Quarterback: Drop the ore now and leave.
[13.02.2024 15:21:00] IMG|Quarterback: One.
[13.02.2024 15:21:05] IMG|Quarterback: Two.
[13.02.2024 15:21:07] GMS|Gallia.Big.Waves: if your say your a IMG miner .
[13.02.2024 15:21:23] GMS|Gallia.Big.Waves: why are you not doing the job as miner ?
[13.02.2024 15:21:24] IMG|Quarterback: Well I did try. Opening fire.
[13.02.2024 15:21:50] GMS|Gallia.Big.Waves died to IMG|Quarterback (100%)

This piracy was not done to get so-called "blues" but as roleplay as the GMS ships were in Tau-23 mining Niobium ore (both ships had the ore in their cargo). IMG sees GMS as a competitor in the mining industry, hence your ship was offered to drop the cargo and leave the system. If the ship listened to the demand, dropped the ore and left the system it wouldn't have been destroyed.

As for the LF I should apologize for not clearly ordering it to leave to Languedoc instead of it heading to Tau-31. As for the insistence of the ship siting in the Niobium mining zone with a mining laser, mining container and 25 units of ore in its hold just "admiring the view" did not participate in a mining operation is an insult to any player Intelligence especially as the destruction of the mining container can be seen long before it comes into the sensor range.

Quote:13.02.2024 15:24:32] GMS|Angelique: Mining operation?
[13.02.2024 15:24:42] Rules Tip: Pirates need to keep their demands reasonable. Cargo and Monetary demands that exceed the maximum profit of a trader are viewed as unreasonable. ''Empty'' traders are not excempt from piracy, but the demands asked from them should reflect this.
[13.02.2024 15:24:45] GMS|Angelique: I am sat here admiring the view
[13.02.2024 15:24:47] IMG|Quarterback: You have ore in your cargo.
[13.02.2024 15:25:19] IMG|Quarterback: Stop moving right now!
[13.02.2024 15:28:02] [OOC] GMS|Angelique: You tell me to leave, so I leave, then you tell me to stop. Make up your mind haha

The GB did leave the LF alone as chasing it is pointless. The unsolicited OOC message is not necessary.

(02-13-2024, 04:23 PM)St.Denis Wrote: I have no problem, nor do the other Members of GMS|, with piracy and some RP along the way, but looking for 'blues' is not conducive to:

"Quote:
1.0 - Don't be a dick. It's a game, try to keep it fun for everyone playing it. Behavior that falls within the technical letter of the rules but not the spirit won't be tolerated."

I know that that Rule is open to interpretation and is possibly being used as a 'cover all' option, but I can say that neither of my Faction Members 'enjoyed' the encounter.

To make it clear this was not "blue" hunting it was corporate competition for the mining rights of Tau-23. I hope this post has cleared that up.

mm33dd · (This post was last modified: 02-19-2024, 12:44 AM by mm33dd.)

Hello guys, I had a little misunderstanding earlier with the IMG|Far.Home
I thought the event allowed both of us to just kill each other like a normal engagement, also we had a bounty open for IMG ships so I took my chance. Won't happen again without demands.

No hard feelings
- {DHC}Schmelztiegel-5

cheers! Cool

Lord Chaos · (This post was last modified: 04-01-2024, 01:51 AM by Lord Chaos.)

It's disappointing to witness such behavior from IMG, which was typically known for its integrity.
The repeated use of a Crayter IMG|Rockabill capital ship to RAM on a barge within an ice field, despite being warned about server rules, is concerning.
It's particularly troubling to see three vessels targeting an unarmed barge carrying valuable cargo such as water.
Additionally, the decision to align with Hessians raises eyebrows, especially considering the potential consequences for alliances such as lets say BMF with Corsairs.

The encounter began with a seemingly innocuous request to share liquid resources, only to devolve into a series of manipulative exchanges involving cash, shield manipulation, and coercive maneuvers to vacate the system. Such actions are not only ridiculous but also reflect poorly on the integrity and image of IMG.

We hope that IMG will reconsider its approach and uphold the principles of fair play and mutual respect that are integral to our community.

Spoiler

I would kindly suggest familiarizing yourself with your surroundings by reading informational cards, as they provide valuable insights.
Furthermore, delving into the past and origins of IMG, perhaps through old wiki pages and forums if accessible, can offer a deeper understanding. It's also essential to learn about both your competitors and enemies, as they represent distinct entities with differing motivations and strategies.

It's important to acknowledge that IMG isn't a House or a nation but rather an inter-house mining corporation.
Understanding this distinction is crucial to avoid repeating past situations, such as those encountered during the Galic War, which may lead to unfavorable outcomes.

It's evident that many players hold IMG in high regard, and it's essential to respect and uphold its reputation within your organization.
Ensuring that IMG's legacy is maintained positively among the community should be a priority, not getting "blues".

Redline.Inc · (This post was last modified: 04-01-2024, 04:00 AM by Redline.Inc.)

Personally, I find it rather comical that these ships were attacked, while working, "in support of oppressed workers" and called "rich capitalists" while the attack was carried out by ships costing 10x the value of the mining ship that was killed first.
Thereby oppressing the poorest worker.

Also, Piracy is capital ships is an absurdity.

Bring back Rule 47 and fix an ill that has been tormenting this server for a LONG time.

Nika · 04-01-2024, 10:48 AM,

I came across this... feedback and it strikes me as you are clearly unaware of a fundamental difference between the Independent Miners Guild and the BMM.
So, allow me to clarify it for you: Independent Miners Guild is, as the name suggests - independent, it is not aligned with any House and rarely operates within a House, having majority of their assets and workers spread across space outside of House control and, first and foremost - a quasi-lawful entity whose diplomacy is not dictated nor swayed by opinion of any House.

BMM is a nationalised corporation and it is obliged to follow the general line of Bretonia in diplomacy. That said, an occassional appearance of a Hessian ship nearby is not indicative of anything you claimed in the present or the past. Besides, what occurs in the independent worlds - stays in the independent worlds. I have been under the impression you would have learned, at this point in time, there is corporate piracy to occur in the wilderness outside of House control and there's more than just belligerent miners that lingers. But that appears to be too much mental exercise. While I admit it might be bad taste and I will personally ensure to bring across the thought of a bumping accident, had it indeed taken place - for I have my doubts of it - to not occur again.

As a closing word, I will advise BMF to invest time they wasted on writing this petty feedback post to educate their members of basics of roleplay and distinguishing in-character and out-of-character messages, with which your logs are filled to the brim.

All in all, please come back when you will have something constructive to put in this thread instead of complaining for the sake of complaining with a flavor of blatant lies. Have a nice day.

Tlaxcala · (This post was last modified: 04-01-2024, 11:40 AM by Tlaxcala.)

(04-01-2024, 01:50 AM)Lord Chaos Wrote: I would kindly suggest familiarizing yourself with your surroundings by reading informational cards, as they provide valuable insights.
Furthermore, delving into the past and origins of IMG, perhaps through old wiki pages and forums if accessible, can offer a deeper understanding. It's also essential to learn about both your competitors and enemies, as they represent distinct entities with differing motivations and strategies.

IRONIC

HERE IS VANILLA INFORMATION MY FRIEND

Code:
MINING IN THE BLOOD: THE HOOD -- The IMG miners, who operate the Hood, get along well with the Mollys, who purchase most of their supplies from the merchants aboard the derelict battleship. Both groups are miners, and though the Mollys have no true allies, the IMG probably come the closest. The IMG are Molly sympathizers, though they have chosen not to criminalize themselves within Bretonia. Like the Mollys, many IMG are former BMM employees, and both groups share a mutual and understandable hatred for the oppressive Bretonian Mining firm.

"The IMG feels that the Mollys were wronged by BMM. We should know, since most of us were exploited for years. Our Rheinland brethren can tell much the same story. Part of the Guild's charter is to share the wealth with as many of our rank and file as possible."

RED HESSIANS ACCEPT FELLOW MINERS: FREISTADT -- Though it has been a long time since the Red Hessians were exclusively miners, they can still apreciate the work that the IMG does to operate independently of corporate and House control in Sirius. Red Hessians and IMG conduct business at the IMG base Freistadt in Omega-7, where they trade Commodities of all kinds from basic supplies to engines. Historically a Bretonian organization, Rheinland miners flocked to the IMG after the 80 Years War, and the common ancestry between the two groups is not overlooked by either faction.

"The Hessians don't really attack us, so that is good. We don't fear for our physical safety, but Gateway does all the shipping to this base and their convoys often get attacked on the way in. So the pirates do make our lives a bit harder sometimes, but I'm not going to try and explain that to the Hessians who come here."

COMPANIES CLASH IN DOCKING DISPUTE: HOLMAN OUTPOST -- The IMG-owned Holman Outpost in Tau-31 was the site of an angry confrontation between IMG and BMM personnel this week. An inbound BMM freighter from Tau-23 had to make an emergency docking after being damaged during an Outcast attack. Docking control, underestimating the seriousness of the damage to the BMM vessel, did not allow the crippled ship to land for two hours, claiming that its bay was full. Only when the pressurization system began to fail on the BMM vessel did the controllers realize the gravity of the situation. A brawl erupted between the BMM crew and IMG dock workers when the crew emerged from their ship.

"I used to work for BMM until I discovered that they didn't care about me. That's why I joined the IMG -- to be my own boss. I get paid for the amount of Water and Oxygen I mine -- not some set salary that is always going to keep me under someone's thumb." - Bernard Goldwell, IMG

"Being an independent miner isn't a picnic, but at least we don't have to answer to some corporate task master. That's why we can expand more quickly than the larger corporations, like BMM. They paid tremendously for Jump Gates to Tau-23; we used Jump Holes and got there first, and that's why the Niobium is ours." - Bernard Goldwell, IMG

I SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH IMG ROLEPLAY, THEY PLAY LIKE THE FOREFATHERS INTENDED.
MAYBE BARGE FLIPPING BULLY ACTION BUT YOU ARE WEAK FEEBLE PREY WITHOUT ESCORT.

edit: caps lock

tlaxcala

Lord Chaos · (This post was last modified: 04-01-2024, 03:57 PM by Lord Chaos.)

I misinterpreted the thread as a "feedback thread" rather than a "debate thread." If you choose to respond with hostility, that's your choice, not mine.

Here's my feedback: perhaps my initial comment was too direct to expect it to be respected or to lead to a meaningful conversation. After all, who are we, as BMF, to dictate to others? We're just one of the oldest factions in this server; what do we really know?

I won't delve into the RP matter, as the new IMG command has already demonstrated their approach, seemingly stating whatever they believe and presenting it as fact simply because they've said it.

One thing is clear to me now: the leadership of IMG will inevitably change, as it has done numerous times before. We've witnessed IMG leadership changing hands many times over the years, and this current leadership doesn't seem to be the best we've seen.

This is still my feedback. If you're unable to handle feedback threads with integrity, perhaps it would be best to eliminate them altogether. I aimed to be respectful in my words, refraining from insults or excessive emphasis, and I did attempt to offer constructive suggestions that I believed could be helpful.

The responses i got just provd me right... i honestly feel pitty for IMG current situation... very sad.

*Edit: Btw, if you like Info cards so much, how about reading Aland Wreck one? Or maybe you guys did read it, it just wasnt convenient to go by its lines huh... "raises eyebrow and shaves it so it doesnt raise ever again with IMG stuff...
BMF is a nationalised corporation merged with BMM, BMF never exploited its workers and we even have RP proving it, here is one of our many threads:
https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...873&page=5 *

Keirdran · 04-01-2024, 04:02 PM,

Might not be my place, but are you basically just upset that you got harassed and 'pirated' by the IMG outside of house space? If so, you're barking up the wrong tree. It is not only allowed, but encouraged for the IMG to defend what they believe to be their ZoI. Whether you have valuable cargo or not, you're fair game for trespassing alone.

(04-01-2024, 03:36 PM)Lord Chaos Wrote: One thing is clear to me now: the leadership of IMG will inevitably change, as it has done numerous times before. We've witnessed IMG leadership changing hands many times over the years, and this current leadership doesn't seem to be the best we've seen.

What's your point? Every faction changed leaders over the years. If you're implying that this incident suggests it'll be happening soon and for a related reason then my god, please rethink how important this matter truly is. Ain't nothing wrong with the faction leadership by my estimation.

(04-01-2024, 03:36 PM)Lord Chaos Wrote: This is still my feedback. If you're unable to handle feedback threads with integrity, perhaps it would be best to eliminate them altogether. I aimed to be respectful in my words, refraining from insults or excessive emphasis, and I did attempt to offer constructive suggestions that I believed could be helpful.

You just don't like that your feedback has issues. You also approached giving feedback in the wrong way too, taking a 'moral high ground' and talking down to the faction as if you, an outsider and in this case 'enemy', know better. As such you're getting people telling you to brush up on what is and isn't allowed regarding corporate piracy.

(04-01-2024, 03:36 PM)Lord Chaos Wrote: The responses i got just provd me right... i honestly feel pitty for IMG current situation... very sad.

I think you just need to get over it mate, sorry. If you reckon a rule was broken then make a report or something.

Lord Chaos · (This post was last modified: 04-01-2024, 04:12 PM by Lord Chaos.)

Using a capital ship to pirate and Ramming another ship to keep it from moving using a OF tag is the issue none of you speaks about, and this is the only issue i raised.
Again proving me right, not a single one of the posts here adressed the real issue, you all just try to fine pick here and there to gaslight the situation... despicable.
Disgracefull for IMG, like most of the latest interactions with them, wich leads to my conclusion, wich again is still my opinion, it has the worth that it has... dont get and grudgy about it hehe

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