PVP balance - problem(s) and solution(s)?

[Barrier]

Hi guys.
Something that came out of the recent event is that people were unsatisfied with some of the PvP engagements they were a part of. And in other cases, no engagement took place at all due to one side deciding not to show up to what looked to be an unfair fight.

I have seen something similar in other cases where sign-ups are not required, such as raids and impromptu pvp. People are either worried that one side of an engagement would be too stacked and don't show up, or they decide that the current fight is already over and pull out.

The examples above are not even talking about another type of balance issue that I'm sure you've seen - different player skill levels. But these two issues (number balance and skill balance) are ultimately tied together, so I think it makes sense to combine them for this discussion.

So my question for you is - is PvP balance a problem? And if it is, how do we solve the problem?

[Traxit]

the classic debate of sportsmanship - its straightforward.

1. do not gank
   
2. do not restock (carrier is ok)
   
3. do not combatdock (unless ganked)
   
4. do not acestack - you know who you are
   
5. do not wait for more enemies, take the initiative and switch sides
   
6. do not engage in a fair fight - sit it out until your side starts losing. alternatively, engage the opposite side's reinforcements
   

feel free to add more onto my list

most importantly, DO NOT CONTINUE THE GANKCYCLE, sometimes shit happens, we cant control indies, if you see that a rowdy bunch of them are not listening, take the initiative and disengage yourself, let them take the heat. THE COMMUNITY HAS TO SELF-REGULATE, if it doesn't then it will downspiral to some of theawful engagements the event had.

oh, and don't be afraid to get blued, its just a VIDEO GAME.

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[Levenna]

To be perfectly honest, I think part of the issue is the stigma that PvP is this giga tryhard thing that you need to put a bajillion hours of conn in to succeed at. XA- is the example I'd like to cite here. It's a faction with sure, a couple very decent pilots, but for the most part is made up of relatively average pvpers. The faction punches well above its weight class in group engagements however simply because they sit in a VC in combat and coordinate under a single shot-caller.

I'm not saying every impromptu engagement needs to be like this but if you know you're going into combat, I don't think it's unreasonable. Not every faction is going to be like Aegis. But I do think the majority of factions could do something similar to XA.

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[03.07.2024] LNS-Beast***: we can do this every day but you have to buy bigger stronger ships...and i'll help you

[LuckyOne]

Yes, it is. And the solution should be a technical one. No merit or honor based system will work with this problem.

My suggestion: have the coders look into implementing at least a primitive autobalance plugin. It could be used at least for events where there are usually only two sides with all participating factions being allied, at least nominally.

The plugin should probably take into account numbers, IDs and fleet dispositions according to the current gameplay balance.

For example, if one side has two cruisers, and the other has none, the plugin should kick anyone logging or jumping into the system with a cruiser on an ID that can join the fleet that already has two cruisers available in the system.

Of course, there are plenty of ways to "game" a technical solution, but then the admins could step in and plug the holes that are left in the script.

[Czechmate]

As probably the most ganked low-skill player on the server - the only solution is a technical one like LuckyOne suggested, you could set one test system for that and experiment with Aingar's magic

E.G. XA from my perspective always have had both skills and were ganking "because it's Lemon's faction" - this discussion has been on ever since Disco inception. The lack of matchmaking is a huge setback compared to modern PvP games. If the devs come up with some technical solution even in a limited way it'd go a long way. It seems impossible, it's an old game, whatever, but maybe @Barrier and @Aingar star duo could make it happen? :O

[Skorak]

The amount of times Reeves is losing his marbles because half of us can't hit the broad side of a barn is actually kind of amusing. XA pvp skill is almost the entire spectrum but the power of actually shooting the target is quite big.

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[Jeuge]

Yes, it is. And the solution should be a technical one. No merit or honor based system will work with this problem.

My suggestion: have the coders look into implementing at least a primitive autobalance plugin. It could be used at least for events where there are usually only two sides with all participating factions being allied, at least nominally.

The plugin should probably take into account numbers, IDs and fleet dispositions according to the current gameplay balance.

For example, if one side has two cruisers, and the other has none, the plugin should kick anyone logging or jumping into the system with a cruiser on an ID that can join the fleet that already has two cruisers available in the system.

Of course, there are plenty of ways to "game" a technical solution, but then the admins could step in and plug the holes that are left in the script.

the worst ideas ive ever read so far

I don't think you've played any other multiplayer video games,
there isn't a video game with a 'TRUE BALANCE PVP' that exists.

the only possible solution is:
the community working together to improve players' skills, such as PVP server for snub and caps that already exists.
Avoid gank when possible, a 4vs6 is not a gank but a 5vs20 is.

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[Reeves]

The amount of times Reeves is losing his marbles because half of us can't hit the broad side of a barn is actually kind of amusing. XA pvp skill is almost the entire spectrum but the power of actually shooting the target is quite big.

[Cries of anguish to the backdrop of a rapidly depleting nanobot count]

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[Big Bison Bessie]

It's really a player thing, I dunno if there is anything code wise the devs can do here. Team work is OP, simple as that. When a whole squad of guys shows up and you got no way of having backup, it's hard to justify either as a player or in character of suiciding into a group fight by yourself or with one other guy. I mostly fly by myself or with just one other guy so it can be a challenge to track down and fight a group of say 10 guys without just dying. I have thankfully had a few instances of showing up to a huge wall of enemies and hanging around and dueling one guy, but there's nothing to stop all 10 from attacking you at once. And really, what would you even do there? Fair play and RP engagements and the need to PVP don't always mesh.

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[Levenna]

E.G. XA from my perspective always have had both skills and were ganking "because it's Lemon's faction"

Last time I was involved in a pvp with you, you were on a lawful battlecruiser shooting missiles at my XA- gunboat which was at the time already being chased by a rogue Hel. What point are you trying to make exactly?

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[03.07.2024] LNS-Beast***: we can do this every day but you have to buy bigger stronger ships...and i'll help you