The idea of requiring full guard rep to buy a capital ship won't improve RP. First of all it would require putting NPC missions on guard bases, which means non-faction NPCs in guard systems. You really think having Liberty Rogues swarming round Virginia will make that BC powertrader RP better? If someone can spend a couple of weeks completing boring trade runs to fund a battleship, without gaining RP skills, then I fail to see why spending another couple of weeks doing boring rep-farming will improve the situation at all.
No longer active online due to a dwindling amount of non-PvP (trading, pirating, mining, etc.) fun in the new version.
' Wrote:i got flamed in pm (in game) for using my HF BC, and the Incursus to setup a lil RP i was conducting, AND i had a player (incidentally, hes on disco forums as well) tell me this (ive got screenshots of the entire convo, but heres a general idea of what was said to me): anytime the HF decides to come to NY, they should come only in fighters and bombers, and not take out their caps, but we, LN/LSF/LNS/Indys have the right to spam as many caps as we want, cuz 'fighter and bomber combat is way too fast for us to handle'
its things such as these which make me think: lolwut? what does Liberty really want? to win every fight they face? and if we come in bombers and fighters, we face people (respectable people) on discovery setup missile boats and missile fighters, and call in a cruiser and a couple of gbs for support agianst a lone bomber.
if this isnt PVP orientated, then hell, i dunno what is. which is why im currently enjoying myself playing anything and everything but freelancer.
im not trying to flame anyone here (and i hope it stays that way), but im more trying to understand what the hell does liberty want from its enemies? to just roll over and die for them? NO RP whatsoever? Oh yes, i get the occasional RP from like 1 faction member out of 20, but is that it? ive had more fun on my camera ship flying alone taking pictures :/
EDIT: and for once, in a long while, i think i agree with the point eppy makes. caps need to be sold on guard bases for full green rep
I have no objection to you RP'ing in your BS in NY but you want to critisise a missile load out on a fighter? So my load out is 4 Magna Hammers and 4 Missile launchers, I guess I have no skill, despite the awful RP guns and limited ammo. Not as much skill as it takes a lane Hacker in a Red Cat bomber to 1 shot kill every new/weak player whos dumb enough to joust you. What really concerns me about HF is the RP your way into any ship. You dont think this is PVP power-playing?
I was told the other day by an HF member that HF own have 4 BD bombers 2 BD fighters, kudos to you guys for RP'ing your way into the most agile ships in the game when you have your own ships available. Load that bomber with CODES and hey hey your away! Woo hoo time for some uber noob pwnage!
Theres a difference between RP'ing your way into a ship because you dont have an alternative and RP'ing your way into a ship because it's uber and its made by an ally of an ally of the Hackers. For once I find myself agreeing with Tenacity, bombers are too overpowered and RP'ing your way into the most agile one simply sucks. Before you start to throw stones take a look at yourselfs. Sorry but this had to be said.
' Wrote:scissors/paper/rock is a nice thing - try adding one or two more .... items into that theory - and the problems start.
we have
fighters
bombers
gunboats
destroyers/cruiser
battlecruisers
battleships
its much more complex than 3 classes. although its of course clear where you re coming from, its not as easy to balance those 6 classes. furthermore, the scissors/paper/rock theory suggests that all of those items are "worth the same" - which is not the case with our ships. - a fighter is not worth as much as a battleship.
so when we apply the scissors/paper/rock concept, we d have to take into account that - when you do the scissors, you have to pay 10 cent, when you do the rock, you have to pay 10 euro and when you want to do the paper, you ll have to pay 50 euro. so when you re poor, all you can do is the scissors... .
How I see you diodnt udnerstand. scissors/papar/rock, bigger Rock, even more bigger ROCK this is what i mean. And i think its quit balanced right now with cap ship hulls and more.
' Wrote:I've been here a couple of months and I've noticed that some players really dislike cap ships and
automatically label anyone flying them as cap whores. The comment I often hear is that they have no place in role play. Maybe not in yours, but they do in mine.
It's the Liberty Navy, and naval ships imply BIG, EXPENSIVE ships. That's why it takes a government to support & and a navy to operate cap ships (it's also why pirates rarely if ever used large ships and NEVER operated near any naval bases, but then that's another thread) One of my characters flys a Liberty Cruiser (the original one that was part of the RP in the SP game) I use it to fly patrols in Liberty space. I conduct lane security patrols, customs inspections, search and rescue operations, ship repair, emergency medical services and disaster response, and yes, naval support with anti-piracy operations just to name a few of the RP functions I perform. We have full medical facilities on board and can even do dental surgery.
Yes, some players suck at cap ship RP. They see it as something that lets them kill anyone and do whatever they want. Hey, I spent ALL that money, dude. I find that poor cap ship RP. I prefer to let fighters fight other fighters in one on one combat. That's what fighters do. Me, I'm the mobile support base. I will take on hostile caps when I can, tho. Also, I hate to see big powerful ships with silly names like "junk pile" ( rules lawyer legal disclaimer - made up names with no intentional likeness to any real player names) or "Kev's big honking ship" You spent all that money on a ship and no time to think up a name ? Your choice, I guess. But then, so is flying a cap ship. You have the freedom to make choices here. Just remember, you also have the responsibility of respecting the choices of others. Please use your freedoms wisely.
Yes, but if it is a real RP, it shouldnt be any CAP ships swarms, like it be sometimes. Okey maybe increase their power, but then put high restrictments how they should be sold.
' Wrote:I have no objection to you RP'ing in your BS in NY but you want to critisise a missile load out on a fighter? So my load out is 4 Magna Hammers and 4 Missile launchers, I guess I have no skill, despite the awful RP guns and limited ammo. Not as much skill as it takes a lane Hacker in a Red Cat bomber to 1 shot kill every new/weak player whos dumb enough to joust you. What really concerns me about HF is the RP your way into any ship. You dont think this is PVP power-playing?
I was told the other day by an HF member that HF own have 4 BD bombers 2 BD fighters, kudos to you guys for RP'ing your way into the most agile ships in the game when you have your own ships available. Load that bomber with CODES and hey hey your away! Woo hoo time for some uber noob pwnage!
Theres a difference between RP'ing your way into a ship because you dont have an alternative and RP'ing your way into a ship because it's uber and its made by an ally of an ally of the Hackers. For once I find myself agreeing with Tenacity, bombers are too overpowered and RP'ing your way into the most agile one simply sucks. Before you start to throw stones take a look at yourselfs. Sorry but this had to be said.
the HF is restricted to 3 Red cats. If the LSF can Rp their use of buckshots, and even nomad cannons, i dont see a problem in being able to RP our use of red cats, which incidentally was done in RP as a deal with the HG. co-incidentally, there are only 2 red cats in commission at the moment, one of which is mine. the rest of the people fly falcatas or sabres. i dont fly a sabre due to the fact its one messed up ship, and it is such an unfair advantage, something bigger than the cats.
anyone who is dumb enough to joust a bomber pilot is stupid, specially when he/she knows that the bomber pilot is good. your choice of magma hammers was only changed recently, so dont play the innocent cat here. your talking about limited ammo? you have 4 different missile launchers with 70 missiles each, out of which 3 have more agility than the cannonball, thus having a higher chance of a hit, and your talking about limited ammo?
codes are a personal choice. my bomber doesnt have codes, but instead it packs a full rack of hellfuries. no Krakens, no wyrms, but hellfuries.
heres a deal. since your making just the one point that we are using red cats, ill setup another falcata. if you still die, you have absolutely no reason to whine. but if you expect us to come in bombers only to face enough missile boats to make the queen of england say "wtf", lets just say you aint got no right to justify yourself.
Oh and the comment about missile fighters was aimed towards someone else. obviously, theres someone even worse than you out there with a r claw with a full missile/sunslayer loadout. well, two, since there are two of such r claws.
and now, enough with the 'personal flaming', and lets go back to the original topic. if you wanna flame some more, let it come via pm. id be happy to oblige with a larger variety of words there.
Personally, I don't think its really that bad at the moment. I fly a fighter, a bomber and a cruiser. In the fighter, if I'm solo (which is how I usually am) and a battleship pops up I scramble. Isn't that how it should be?
In the bomber I might mess with the battleship for a little while, before making a run for it. If I'm in a bomber wing however, I'd go full offensive against the battleship.
In my cruiser I'm set up to fight bombers and gunboats, so I'd only tackle a battleship as a support craft, or as a meatshield for bombers.
To all of my ships, battleships are fairly scary things as they should be, but I always have the ability to run. Denying battleships engagements encourages the pilots to use other classes of ships. The problem, as I see it, in New York is the glut of targets for capital ships. Suicide runs by xenos and rogues mean the battleships are viable. If however, those xenos and rogues attacked the outlying systems even more frequently in fast hit and run raids on traders and police patrols, then the battleships would have to be split up. Some remaining in new york, others moving to colorado, california, texas etc.
As it is, rogues executing police and navy officers on live broadcast in New York (an example), is designed to provoke an excessive reaction from the navy. Thus, battleships. If you don't want to be chased by caps, don't piss off the navy. If you want to be chased by caps, lead them to where they are less effective.
With regard to cap ship rp. Very viable, easier than fighter rp (no worry of death by npc because you stopped dodging to type a sentence), and allows for the involvement of a whole crew. I try to make the Sicarius as whole a ship as possible, not just a metal hull with guns strapped to it.
I will say this only reason bombers have that ridiculously overpowered cannon and the caps don't is to complensate against the shields armor and fire power, also since no one want to walk around with 15 bomber friens all day just to take out say....a cruiser. While that woud be logical depending on the universe, a games realisticness is always sacrificed from the comfortability of the players. but when you take into account how difficult it is to hit on of those....ever you find your selves reying to propose specialized weapons to get rid of those buggers.
' Wrote:the HF is restricted to 3 Red cats. If the LSF can Rp their use of buckshots, and even nomad cannons, i dont see a problem in being able to RP our use of red cats, which incidentally was done in RP as a deal with the HG. co-incidentally, there are only 2 red cats in commission at the moment, one of which is mine. the rest of the people fly falcatas or sabres. i dont fly a sabre due to the fact its one messed up ship, and it is such an unfair advantage, something bigger than the cats.
anyone who is dumb enough to joust a bomber pilot is stupid, specially when he/she knows that the bomber pilot is good. your choice of magma hammers was only changed recently, so dont play the innocent cat here. your talking about limited ammo? you have 4 different missile launchers with 70 missiles each, out of which 3 have more agility than the cannonball, thus having a higher chance of a hit, and your talking about limited ammo?
codes are a personal choice. my bomber doesnt have codes, but instead it packs a full rack of hellfuries. no Krakens, no wyrms, but hellfuries.
heres a deal. since your making just the one point that we are using red cats, ill setup another falcata. if you still die, you have absolutely no reason to whine. but if you expect us to come in bombers only to face enough missile boats to make the queen of england say "wtf", lets just say you aint got no right to justify yourself.
Oh and the comment about missile fighters was aimed towards someone else. obviously, theres someone even worse than you out there with a r claw with a full missile/sunslayer loadout. well, two, since there are two of such r claws.
and now, enough with the 'personal flaming', and lets go back to the original topic. if you wanna flame some more, let it come via pm. id be happy to oblige with a larger variety of words there.
What personal flaming? Am I stating an opinion, if you take that as a flame then that's your guilty conscience, you are the one that brought up PVP abuse, My load out has changed and does so alot, from 2 debs 2 bucks, 2 debs 2 vengance, 2 debs 2 adv fashes and 4 magna has been on awhile and been on before, here we are talkin about perfectly resonable guns, that have been dropped, I dont like the use of Nomads or CODES although I used to use em about a year ago when "everyone" used them, and that's done by permission by Sniper now and I dont want them. When it comes RP'ing your way into an ally of an ally ship's when you have sabres and Falcattas available then frankly you are taking a "liberty".
If you dont have a counter to missiles that your load out choice not mine, a good bomber pilot can cope. Mjolinar in his Falcatta is a perfect example.
My opinion on missile boats is well documented and they do need a nerf, ammo cut. I created one 2 days ago to see for myself and yes, they are ridiculous. You just sit back and spam the oblivion out of your enemy in the most skilless way possible. It's not like this is a new tatic exclusive to lawfuls you know, the missile boat is being used by unlawfuls alot too.
Set up a Falcatta, come see me. It's ok for you to whine and I cant comment on it? You want to flame me on PM? Flame me here..
Why dont I just get myself a Zoner Juggernaut and "defect" to Liberty with a RP story, or make it we got one by trading 7 billion Vengances for it. Not good.
Maybe there was a flame in my original post and if there was I apologise, I dont usually flame people, but I strongly dis-agree with your ship choices here.
Realise guys that while rock paper scissors sounds good in theory, it will actually be detrimental to those factions who do not have access to "paper and rocks", like the Xenos or pretty much any other unlawful faction whatsoever. You simply cannot have a capital ship as a hard counter (undefeatable) to bombers as well as fighters, because then it gets spammed by.. lets see.. everyone? Best example? Missile boats and gunboats in general.
Bombers as a concept are really not overpowered. One can tell tales of one bomber defeating ten gunboats, but that is simply pulled out of ones arse so to say. There are like three or four pilots on the server who are able to SN fighters in bombers, but in general a VHF that knows what it is doing is able to take out a bomber no problem. A few individual bombers are overpowered against fighters, but then - as unbelievable as that may be - there are a lot of bombers that are also hideously underpowered against everything, like the Thor, Barghest, Havoc, etc.
Lets put it this way. The other day there was a Phantom invasion in NY. A battleship complimented by two fighters. I really wonder how they managed to survive if bombers are so overpowered. Oh wait, the battleship had fighter support. Myself and one of the best bomber pilots on the server couldn't touch them. Case in point: Capships are for fleet battles. They are meant to be specialised and work in a team.
And don't say that they held NY because they are Phantoms. I have plenty more examples from RHA, Corsairs, Outcasts, all sorts of other factions with far less notoriety.
First of all, to those who say Capships have NO rp value, you are absolutely wrong. Capships have alot of RP potential, likely more then a fighter.
As for the discussion as a whole maybe we should change things a bit, instead of trying to eliminate the "capship abusers" perhaps we need to work to eliminate the image that all capship users are abusers. If people see the capships online more often RPing instead of just killing things, then we could help remove that negative image... sure we'll never get rid of the abusers, but we can at least get rid of the generalization that ALL capship users abuse them and let people be judged on their RP.
BTW- Selling capships in guard systems may reduce their numbers, but it also gives the official factions total control, not sure if we want that.... sure it could be done responsibly but.. it could easily be abused.
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