To hell with Armor Upgrades!

[deluca]

i think armor upgrades are a nice thing to have and they add exploration to the server BUT

they should have some effect on mobility, eg: cap mk8 should make a cruiser's mobility go down the flusher, turning it into a living defense platform

which wouldnt necessarily be bad...

this would add a nice variation, instead of everyone having uni mk8 on every single ship

you would have to find the balance thats right for you :)

EDIT: as i have no experience moddding i have no idea if this is at all possible and i dont want to impose to much on our great modders

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[Grumblesaur]

i think armor upgrades are a nice thing to have and they add exploration to the server BUT

they should have some effect on mobility, eg: cap mk8 should make a cruiser's mobility go down the flusher, turning it into a living defense platform

which wouldnt necessarily be bad...

this would add a nice variation, instead of everyone having uni mk8 on every single ship

you would have to find the balance thats right for you :)

EDIT: as i have no experience moddding i have no idea if this is at all possible and i dont want to impose to much on our great modders

Perhaps different varieties or armor, like we have shields.

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A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[mjolnir]

i think armor upgrades are a nice thing to have and they add exploration to the server BUT

they should have some effect on mobility, eg: cap mk8 should make a cruiser's mobility go down the flusher, turning it into a living defense platform
............

EDIT: as i have no experience moddding i have no idea if this is at all possible and i don't want to impose to much on our great modders

Yes it would be nice, dev team thought about that as well to find out it's not possible without some very extensive extra modding.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

What's the point of removing armor upgrades from the game and then doubling the hull strenght? We would end up exactly where we started.

Let me put it this way.

In vFreelancer, the Sabre, one of the toughest targets you can encounter, looks like this:

Shield capacity - about 11,000
Batteries - 63 (200) = 12,600
Hull strength - 10,800
NanoBots - 63 (300) = 18,900

Which is 53,300 hitpoints altogether.



In Disco, the Sabre's stats look like this:

Shield capacity - about 11,000
Batteries - 66 (300) = 19,800

Now, here's where the 2.5 becomes involved. It affects both.
Hull strength - 11,200 *2.5 = 28,000
NanoBots - 66 (600) = 39,600 *2.5 = 99,000

And that is 157,800 hipoints. That's 3 times more!!!



To make the matter even worse, we've got nearly industructible bombers in Disco. For instance:

Praetorian, not the toughest one but still:

Shield capacity - about 11,000
Batteries - 100 (300) = 30,000

Hull strength - 21,000 * 2.5 = 52,500
NanoBots - 100 (600) = 60,000 *2.5 = 150,000

= 243,500 hitpoints. Plus I should probably mention that because the battles last so long, the shield will automatically fix itself at least 500 times bringing another 1000 hitpoints with it.

Can't think of anything more frustrating than using a light figher against agile targets with 157,800 or 243,500 hp.

In the olden days, 53,300 was just enough. And that's the value I'd like this mod to approach.

3. basically all lvl 8 and 9 guns have been upped some 20% in damage

That actually gave me another idea. I suggest all fighter weapons from lvl 1 right up to the lvl 10, except shield busters, get damage boost.

But 20% is nowhere near enough. 100% sounds better.

Or why not counter armor upgrades with "damage upgrades" of some sort with the same 2.5x modifier?

[Grumblesaur]

What's the point of removing armor upgrades from the game and then doubling the hull strenght? We would end up exactly where we started.

Let me put it this way.

In vFreelancer, the Sabre, one of the toughest targets you can encounter, looks like this:

Shield capacity - about 11,000
Batteries - 63 (200) = 12,600
Hull strength - 10,800
NanoBots - 63 (300) = 18,900

Which is 53,300 hitpoints altogether.
In Disco, the Sabre's stats look like this:

Shield capacity - about 11,000
Batteries - 66 (300) = 19,800

Now, here's where the 2.5 becomes involved. It affects both.
Hull strength - 11,200 *2.5 = 28,000
NanoBots - 66 (600) = 39,600 *2.5 = 99,000

And that is 157,800 hipoints. That's 3 times more!!!
To make the matter even worse, we've got nearly industructible bombers in Disco. For instance:

Praetorian, not the toughest one but still:

Shield capacity - about 11,000
Batteries - 100 (300) = 30,000

Hull strength - 21,000 * 2.5 = 52,500
NanoBots - 100 (600) = 60,000 *2.5 = 150,000

= 243,500 hitpoints. Plus I should probably mention that because the battles last so long, the shield will automatically fix itself at least 500 times bringing another 1000 hitpoints with it.

Can't think of anything more frustrating than using a light figher against agile targets with 157,800 or 243,500 hp.

In the olden days, 53,300 was just enough. And that's the value I'd like this mod to approach.
That actually gave me another idea. I suggest all fighter weapons from lvl 1 right up to the lvl 10, except shield busters, get damage boost.

But 20% is nowhere near enough. 100% sounds better.

Or why not counter armor upgrades with "damage upgrades" of some sort with the same 2.5x modifier?

2.5 damage upgrade on BS with solaris turrets vs. Bomber = PWN.
Maybe not a good idea.

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A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.

[Jonathan_Archer_nx01]

2.5 damage upgrade on BS with solaris turrets vs. Bomber = PWN.
Maybe not a good idea.

I said fighter weapons. And come to thinking of it, small turrets too. Big turrets and shield busters could remain as they're.

[Derkylos]

While removal of armor upgrades may seem like a good idea in order to make fighter engagements quicker, any unarmored fighter is not gonna be able to take on even a transport, let alone a capital ship.

Upping fighter weapons damadge may be a good idea, but then you have to compare that against capital ship shielding...if it got to the point where an LF can hold down a battleship shield...

I think people have commented before on the number of regens ships can carry...maybe cutting the number of bots (only), while leaving the number of bats the same? (Fighter class 10 takes somewhere in the region of 30-40 bats to fully regen).

If you could only carry 1/2 the present number of nanos, the 2.5 armour multiplier will be almost negated (save for the initial hull increase).

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[Divine]

Heck NO, Armor Upgrades must stay in every variation.

First, cause I wouldnt survive even not some NPC's without my AU-MkVIII.

Second, cause when I started with Discovery (yea, with 4.84, nothing before, no vanilla) I used also some lower Upgrades on my Fighter, and I would not have all my characters now without the AU; I would probably had died so much without them, that I surely had stopped playing Freelancer cause of missing fun.

What, to me, really still is the greatest annoyance in this game is the widespread use of SNAC's and Codename weapons.
I saw so much House police and military ships using codename weapons instead of their own, or Sairs and Outcasts also do (most are independents so)
So I say, remove those Codename weapons.

And yea, its a hell when you face a bomber, your shields are down and than *bang* you are death, hitted by the SNAC.
If it would not need such much training and a kind of skill I would tend to say, SNAC's and also Nuke Mines are 'noobish'.
Using SNAC's against Fighters eliminates the fun for the Fighter pilot.

We need more "Kings of the Iron Fist"; people going out, having no glue of what a mine, a rocket or a torpedo is and just use their blasters/guns.


Out.

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[Lt.Cmdr.Olsav]

here here, the above post is awesome.

i hate no one ever duels with guns anymore, just sheildbuster/codie and a razor or snac or nuke

takes all the fun out of flying a fighter, since lets be honest those are all expensive and powerful weaps that a)not everyone should have and b)make fighting a pain for the guy in all class 9 guns or some such more char driven setup.

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RAHF.Lt.Karol.Olsav
fmr Lord Solar Admiral of the Helghast, fmr.RAHF-Olsav-[Cpt], fmr. {Helghast}(LSA-vhf)~Olsav, fmr.{Helghast}(LSA)~Olsav, aboard HCS. Kesselring

[swift]

Well it all started one day, when probably one guy was pissed about how hard it was to fight vs. codes and shieldbusters. Then he got them as well.
Then another, and yet another, it spreads like a plague. I am one of those guys for instance. I also started with debs and vampires, but when I saw how overpowered those krakens were, I had no choice.

But level 8 and 9 guns are getting a boost in the next mod, so I hope the codename usage will drop.

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