Dab, I remember you making a claim on your Kiretsu that GMG ships further than 10k away from Naha are fair game for any Kiretsu ships in Sigma-13, especially if they are engaging Outcasts or Outcast allies (which is unacceptable considering that GMG has a complete claim to Sigma-13 that they enforce, and not just the area around Naha), and that despite apologies you still proceeded to come to Naha uninvited anyways to engage the BHG and merc sitting there. That was the incident that made the GMG declare a bounty on the Kiretsu as far as I know.
' Wrote:Dab, I remember you making a claim on your Kiretsu that GMG ships further than 10k away from Naha are fair game for any Kiretsu ships in Sigma-13, especially if they are engaging Outcasts or Outcast allies (which is unacceptable considering that GMG has a complete claim to Sigma-13 that they enforce, and not just the area around Naha), and that despite apologies you still proceeded to come to Naha uninvited anyways to engage the BHG and merc sitting there. That was the incident that made the GMG declare a bounty on the Kiretsu as far as I know.
Actually, if you would please remember, I said that Kiretsu may ONLY fire on GMG if the GMG are at leas 15km from Naha and were the ones who initiated hostilities. If OC were within 15km of Naha, pirating, or had already fired on GMG at some point, Kiretsu wouldn't get involved. Only if GMG was making unprovoked attacks. For example, if there was a Cardamine smuggler ~ 30km from Naha, and he had not been closer than that, yet GMG were chasing him, then and only then could Kiretsu get involved. We're required to due to our alliance with the OC. and Its another reason I encourage all Kiretsu to simply avoid Sigma-13 completely. Furthermore, even that situation isn't going to happen, since I tell Kiretsu not to escort Outcast smugglers. They've got plenty of ships for that. So the only time you will ever actually see us aid OC against GMG is if GMG attacks them somewhere near Yanagi, Sigma-17 JH, or if the Kiretsu are already grouped with them for some operation and GMG attack them. Even then, Kiretsu have orders to only fight as long as needed. Once the GMG leave the OC, or the OC are beaten, any Kiretsu there are to break off and leave the fight. Whether they could beat GMG or not.
Also, the incident at Naha was the one I described in my earlier post. I told the BHG to back down and cease firing and he didn't. He kept firing on the Kiretsu, and that is why we got involved there. The Merc came 15 minutes afterwards and got involved, even though we and NovaPG told him to back off. GMG as well I believe.
Quote:if there was a Cardamine smuggler ~ 30km from Naha, and he had not been closer than that, yet GMG were chasing him, then and only then could Kiretsu get involved.
And for that reason alone, bounties are in short order.
We don't simply enforce our laws within a set vicinity of the mining station. Every square inch of Sigma-13 and the Ogashawa area of 19 are under GMG control. 30k or 70k, no matter.
If you'll assist pirates or smugglers in any way, you'll be treated as such. It's nothing personal, just how it works.
' Wrote:And for that reason alone, bounties are in short order.
We don't simply enforce our laws within a set vicinity of the mining station. Every square inch of Sigma-13 and most of 19 are under GMG control. 30k or 70k, no matter.
If you'll assist pirates or smugglers in any way, you'll be treated as such. It's nothing personal, just how it works.
Did you read the rest of the post as well? You'll see that we haven't, nor will we be assisting smugglers in Sigma-13. I said thats when we COULD get involved, if I revoked the order prohibiting Kiretsu from escorting any smugglers except GC smugglers or OC smugglers going to Ainu, all of which using Taus, not Sigmas. Hence, there is no reason, explanation, nor evidence to support a bounty.
"if there was a Cardamine smuggler ~ 30km from Naha, and he had not been closer than that, yet GMG were chasing him, then and only then could Kiretsu get involved."
"if there was a Cardamine smuggler ~ 30km from Naha, and he had not been closer than that, yet GMG were chasing him, then and only then could Kiretsu get involved."
I don't understand that statement.
' Wrote:For example, if there was a Cardamine smuggler ~ 30km from Naha, and he had not been closer than that, yet GMG were chasing him, then and only then could Kiretsu get involved. We're required to due to our alliance with the OC. and Its another reason I encourage all Kiretsu to simply avoid Sigma-13 completely. Furthermore, even that situation isn't going to happen, since I tell Kiretsu not to escort Outcast smugglers.
So you're basically saying, if Kiretsu were in Sigma-13, they would be obligated to have reason to attack us in that situation, but they are told to avoid Sigma-13 completely.
The fact remains that you would still have reason to attack us in that case, and for that reason you are a threat, albeit a small or coincidental one. For that fact alone there is reason to bounty you, at least in my opinion. (I don't speak for the whole guild of course, so we will see.)
But if you do not operate in Sigma-13 anyways, I don't see how this is really a problem. You stay out, you don't have troubles.
' Wrote:So you're basically saying, if Kiretsu were in Sigma-13, they would be obligated to have reason to attack us in that situation, but they are told to avoid Sigma-13 completely.
The fact remains that you would still have reason to attack us in that case, and for that reason you are a threat, albeit a small or coincidental one. For that fact alone there is reason to bounty you, at least in my opinion. (I don't speak for the whole guild of course, so we will see.)
But if you do not operate in Sigma-13 anyways, I don't see how this is really a problem. You stay out, you don't have troubles.
If they were in Sigma-13, and specific conditions were met. Ie; you're shooting Outcasts near Yanagi, you'll have Junkers to deal with, not Kiretsu. So unless GMG does something stupid, there would be no hostilities, just like any other faction would have problems if they did something stupid. Its called politics. Thats when both factions do whats necessary, but avoid shooting each other unless their hand is forced. As said, the only time we'd ever shoot each other is if one of us does something stupid, and then it'll be their own fault.
The problem is that when we are in Sigma-13, helping NovaPG clear it of 'Sairs and BHG, a common enemy no? Is that mercs will shoot us even when operating in those mutually beneficial operations. Furthermore, BHG and Mercs don't usually abide by other faction's ZoIs.. We'll have, and have in the past, BHG and Mercs in Hokkaido going for us to get a bounty claim. Lastly, you don't bounty someone until they provoke a conflict. Which neither of us have. By your logic, you best have a bounty on RM and RFP, because there are reasons for both groups to attack you. This works all ways Orin, not just one. If your going to use that logic, you should be using it all over. And if everyone did that, every faction would be hostile to every other faction, and every faction would have a bounty on every other faction..
You say you are bountying us because there is the possibility of hostilities.. Please show me a faction that is neutral that does NOT have the possibility of hostilities with someone else. Everyone has certain conditions that will result in hostilities. The only difference is that I informed you of ours and what we are doing to avoid them, so that both of us can work towards keeping out of each others way. What your doing is a 'preemptive' measure, but something that will be the direct cause of hostilities. While we've done whatever possible, you've done the exact opposite and have aggravated the situation. Are we supposed to just sit back and watch mercs and BHG hound us because a neutral faction put a bounty on us, and cannot present any evidence to back up their claims, nor have they taken any steps towards solving the situation? Or should we retaliate? Any faction in this position would retaliate. We can do it easily, and with Outcasts backing us up, there would be no problem in taking you on, except the fact that it isn't one of our objectives, and our time can more wisely be spent on other things.
So I'll say again; Continue with this course and make a bad situation worse, or work with us to keep hostilities from happening.
It's out of my understanding at this point, Dab. I see other guild masters saying that there have been confrontations in the past, then I see that you will attack us in specified situations. (Which are not "idiotic", by the way, as you seem to think. Taking down a smuggler 30k away from the Naha is fully within our rights and RP.) So at this point, with all that I saw, bounties would be in order.
But as I said, I don't have any more to say here. I don't know anything of these confrontations and conversations that have been brought to dim light. If they happened, yes, bounties. If they didn't, probably not.
Either someone who has more information come in and set this straight, or leave it be, as it will be discussed.
It isn't unreasonable to see the GMG putting a bounty on Kiretsu. Though, it isn't particularly advisable, as GMG hostility with Kiretsu, direct or otherwise, hurts their relations with the Blood Dragons and GC as a whole.
Furthermore, the Consortium is super-protective of Kiretsu as with al GC, and does not recognize the GMG as anything more them 'Non-beneficial population'. Any hit of aggression toward them is likely to result in Consortium retaliation. Though, this is not nessiscarily a bad thing, as it creates RP oppurtunities.
Though, \CS\-GMG relations could go both ways, as they consider an alliance or agreement with the GMG to gain access to Sigma-13 and lots of H-fuel more beneficial then all out invasion. If the GMG drop the bounties, it may open the oppurtunity for the Consortium and GMG to have relations similarly to the GMG and Dragons.
The GMG can chose to continue to post bounties on Kiretsu and likely suffer a Consortium invasion of Sigma-13, or they can withdraw the bounties and eventually open the door for potentially profitable enterprises.