I never said Harris was in T-23, I meant "Bretonia has Harris, and the BMM base in Tau-23".
The Harris minefield really isn't a problem, IIRC you can completely bypass it by going around behind the planet.
Magellan, etc. are shown as independent systems, not systems owned by a particular House, like Orkney is. Likewise, the Sigma's are neither named after a House trend nor shown under House colors. Obviously they aren't Kusari-owned.
Orkney has always been a Bretonian system, it's been shown as Bretonia on the map. If anything it's that other factions are going right over the head of Bretonia to build bases in Orkney. Just because they're not using it doesn't make it not theirs.
While Kusari has pushed into Leeds, it's possibly a premature move by them. Bretonia is in position to make a counterattack and cut off their supply lines, potentially causing Kusari to lose both Leeds AND Tau-31 completely. That's not just my tactical thoughts, that's off of rumors and news and such things. Bretonia currently has line-of-supply up to Tau-23, and there's nothing blocking them from going from there to Orkney.
Houses will lay claim to systems, whether they have the ability to enforce that claim or not...that is the reason the Bretonian-Kusari war started in the first place. Other factions can attempt to gain control over the systems, either through diplomacy or force of arms. It is the way international relationships have been progressing for centuries.
It is very annoying when people are so adamant that X house does not control Y system that they will even go OoRP to say that "your laws have no application here". I have run into several traders that stubbornly insisted that Tau-31 or Omega-3 was not part of Bretonia, and, as such, I could not enforce Bretonian law there. A power will exert it's authority in any and all systems it feels it can get away with, and, if Bretonia wants to claim Orkney as it's own in RP, you should respond to said claims in RP, be that with gunfire, words, or cruise engines.
I was under the same perspective that Bretonia shouldn't care about Orkney, as they have nothing of value there, however, after some thought and discussion it seems that there is a strong case for Bretonia to claim Orkney, and should be allowed to claim it, whether rightfully or not. Whether they can successfully enforce this claim or not, is the key issue (and lets face it, they can't, but must keep the illusion to Bretonia's people that they do, aswell as negotiations with the other parties there). Remember the vanilla storyline... Rheinland claimed Sigma 13, the GMG took it back.
It is fully in-RP for Bretonia to claim Orkney, if they can get to their BMM base, they can get to Orkney, and infact Orkney being further from the battlelines make it an ideal supply point to that base in tau-23, if agreements can be made with the IMG. Furthermore, in claiming it
a) it raises morale, shows the people of Bretonia that the forces are in control of the situation
b)It allows the BAF to have a strong and secret presence behind enemy lines as it were.
BAF is fighting a strategic war as opposed to Kusari's straight line, basic plan, which is to move the power forward. The kusari offense force is now effectively surrounded. Whilst by using brute force Kusari has taken more territory, by doing such a thing they are in a tactically weaker position. Bretonia fights through strategy, not through numbers or superior technology. Orkney is a big part of this strategy.
This, as far as I am concerned, provides enough justification for us to at least be allowed to RP the claiming of Orkney for Bretonia, not even taking into account all the other arguments we have made.
To say we have not even theoretical claims to the system at all is ridiculous considering the infocard, and the map of Sirius Dieter showed earlier, and if Igiss is determined to claim otherwise then, with respect, he is contradicting his own cannon RP.
I must admit that I'm stunned at the backlash to what was actually a rather well reasoned bit of RP. We had discussed for weeks how to handle the Gallia situation, and we had arrived at a temporary lockdown until we sorted what happened. It was meant to be a knee-jerk response that we would back down on once we figured out what was going on. The lockdown was nothing more than a bit of Government RP intended to give us some time to negotiate a deal with the relevant factions, which is exactly what we've done. Is there really a good reason to override that RP?
We based our claims on Orkney on the official map, which marks Orkney as being Bretonian, and the in-game Orkney system infocard, which also labels the system as being Bretonian. Everything we did there was in RP, and not powergaming in the slightest.
This sort of thing doesn't need to be treated by some like a raw & exposed nerve
The Bretonian claim to Orkney is a very good bit of well written RP, & people need to relax abit.
Where my perspective comes from is from that of my character: Bretonia claims what they feel belongs to them by right, & my character scoffs at those claims & tells them to kiss his watusi
I have said before & will continue to say that Lewis & Orkney are not under the yoke of the crown, yet at the same time, even though Lewis for example is the Gaian guard system & in no way under the control of the Bret gov't, I have always & will always refer to it as Lewis, Bretonia...Orkney? no, it will always be a border system to me, but Lewis? yeah, you bet it's teabag country.
Just deal as I do & don't make a mountain out of a molehill. It's only RP people. Enjoy it & don't burst a blood vessel.
Listen to Marburg. Feel free to flaunt your disregard for Bretonian laws/rule in-character, but it's not an OORP issue. Bretonia obviously has the right to try and control it. But remember, if you openly disregard Bretonian rule in Orkney, you'll be a criminal in the rest of Bretonia as well.
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' Wrote:Liberty and Bretonia are already enforcing their rule in Magellan and Cortez, and nobody complained at the time. In fact, this was hailed as one of the greatest RP successes of Disco by many people, so I find this change in attitude rather surprising.
You know what I find surprising? That the only faction that has consistently and constantly maintained a presence in Magellan and Cortez for over a year found out about the LOLTreaty when it was posted as a fact, instead of being asked to provide prior perspective about something that has an enormous impact on its activities. You should interpret the silence as an expression of profound contempt for your lack of courtesy, consideration, respect, and conscientiousness.
' Wrote:I must admit that I'm stunned at the backlash to what was actually a rather well reasoned bit of RP. We had discussed for weeks how to handle the Gallia situation, and we had arrived at a temporary lockdown until we sorted what happened.
Discussed among yourselves, who are the primary beneficiaries. Not discussed on these forums where everyone else impacted has a chance to share your prior knowledge and provide input about how it impacts them.
How would you like it if the Corsairs planned a systematic invasion of Bretonia for weeks ahead of time, and then without any warning descended into every Bretonian system in force, overwhelming the unsuspecting BAF and shutting down all trade? You'd be crying for Admin intervention faster than a cat hits catnip. One of the factions involved in the Treaty of Curacao backed out of even considering participating in a planned event last summer because they weren't consulted prior to the offered invitation being extended. But they had no problem laying claim to another faction's territory to their own benefit and the other faction's loss. Hypocritical much? You bet.
This is all powergaming because all you have to do is write a fancy script and voila it's fact. You don't have to deal with any real world consequences. You don't have to actually win anything against a hostile opposition. You don't have to outmaneuver an opponent. You don't have to make any material sacrifices, or risk any loss, or even have to face the potential of failing. All you have to do is write a fancy script, and then smugly declare that you now deserve the benefits of what you did not have to work for in any meaningful way.
Garbage in a gold plated trash can still stinks.
Both of these instances are signs of a profound selfishness and disregard for everyone else who is impacted by these decisions. As such, they deserve no more respect than what you have shown towards everyone else : zero.
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@Xoria: You're completely missing the fact that Orkney is already officially a Bretonian system, and has been for a long, long time. Gallia showing up and the Council building a base in that system doesn't change that, nor does the IMG or Outcasts building a base in that system. The map lists it as Bretonian, the infocard lists it as Bretonian. It is Bretonian, and Bretonia has the right to try and control it.