Bretonian Armed Forces Feedback

[Neronian]

Its not like we're out to stop you (Like he wants to think), and Derkylos raises a good point. There are MILLIONS of excuses that you could use to get through, and probably 600,000 of them might work if you make it believable. Using my last example, If he had said he was transporting robot components packed with explosives or ones that were programmed to just move wildly and destroy the factory, instead of calling us "Pirates", Then hell, "I have better things to do, go ahead." Its that simple people, even if your lying... Its a ROLE PLAYING game, act like a person and LIE! Anyways, I'm glad he's done talking 'cause i'm done trying to explain things to ignorant and closed-minded people who cant deal with one little route being changed in a game...

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"The pen is mightier than the sword." -Edward Bulwer-Lytton.
"Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword never encountered automatic weapons." -General Douglas MacArthur

[MarvinCZ]

Folks, this is the BAF Feedback thread, but I wouldn't like to see every Tom, Dick and Harry come to chime in and throw some dirt. People raised concerns, those were answered. You can answer as well, if you have relevant info to add, especially when you participated in the event. What I don't want is this turning into a flamefest.

I also want to point you at this:

BAF Member Guidelines.

[...]

4. Combat/Assistance Priorities are as Follows

Priority 1 : Always, without delay, assist other BAF, BPA, and other allies in combat who require assistance, but do not overkill, either. Obviously RL takes precedence, but advise others when it does.
Priority 2 : Stop Pirates from pirating in Bretonian space
Priority 3 : Stop Smuggling (This is BPA's job, and not a BAF priority. We are at war)
Priority 4 : Combat Training in Salisbury, or patrol home systems, or help new players with rep, as needed.

Until this gets changed, pirates have higher priority. If you see one, you DO switch to the higher priority task. We can discuss how the blockade should affect the priorities, but this is in effect now.

[Lythor]

Its not like we're out to stop you (Like he wants to think), and Derkylos raises a good point. There are MILLIONS of excuses that you could use to get through, and probably 600,000 of them might work if you make it believable. Using my last example, If he had said he was transporting robot components packed with explosives or ones that were programmed to just move wildly and destroy the factory, instead of calling us "Pirates", Then hell, "I have better things to do, go ahead." Its that simple people, even if your lying... Its a ROLE PLAYING game, act like a person and LIE! Anyways, I'm glad he's done talking 'cause i'm done trying to explain things to ignorant and closed-minded people who cant deal with one little route being changed in a game...

Going to respond to this one in a calm and placid manner that is completely out of charcter. Maybe I am ignorant young fella but that is cos I am new to this server and this Mod. There are a hell of a lot of things I dont know as you may be surprised to learn that I was not born with all the knowledge of Discovery FL hardwired into my genetic makeup. Obviously you seem to expect I was.

Ok lets disregard the issue of the blockade, I will concede that it is legal from an RP point of view ok? What gets me is the way it was enforced by the two guys who initially stopped me. I have read the orders that you claim you follow in regard to this matter. The first time I was stopped I was asked where I was going and I replied that my destination was Holman, Tau 31. The response from your guys was effectively 'dont believe you, drop the cargo or be destroyed'. Now, go back and read the rule that you have on that! It quite clearly states that what they should of done was to monitor my flight to ascertain my destination, if it then transpired that I did indeed go to Kusari (which I didnt, but they didnt check anyway) then I could lawfully be placed on the KOS list as a blockade runner. Nowhere in your rule does it say that they should attack any trader without proof of transgression.
I raised this matter with LtCdr frost (a character some of your members would do well to emulate). He was in agreement with me that your men had acted out of character as far as the rule on the embargo was concerned. I was informed by frost that he had made your men clear on their mistake and he was sorry for the inconvenience. That should of been an end to it but no, I was stopped again and by the 2 original fellas and 2 others. Including your alleged 'privateer'. (it seems the rules layed down by the server on Navy ID do not apply to mister noteworthy)
I will also point out that I was flying a Gateway ID'd ship, you say that means I should not be trading with IMG from an RP point of view? I say Gateway is a shipping company and is free to ship goods to neutral factions if the profit is good, as long as it does not breach the embargo or your rule it would seem.
Now lets get back to your rule. I can appreciate why it is in place, and in retrospect it is an applaudable piece of RP that adds a certain flavour to that area. But I do feel that your members take liberty when deciding how that rule is inturpreted! I would not be making any complaint if I had been warned of the embargo and then broken it, but I did not. What I also want to know is why your rule supercedes the server rule on NAVY ID? Which I think states that you may halt and attack vessels of a hostile house if they refuse to drop their cargo or leave the system etc. It does not say that you may demand the same of any trader whatsoever! The admin need to decide which rule has priority here, theirs or yours! Or can I assume that you have admin in your faction and as such the point is moot?
Anway, when push comes to shove its all over and done with, from now on I shall attempt to run your blockade at every opportunity and will do so in the spirit of RP which is really whats at issue here. I also note that you have pushed to have me sanctioned. I would like to point out on that score that I was not the only one talking OOC in this matter, and I was not the one who sent private messages containing profanity and name calling and threatening lifetime bans from the server! I wont name names as it is of no import. At the end of the day gentleman this is just a game.

[MarvinCZ]

I ask in advance any BAF members who might feel they need to react in a strong manner, DON'T. If there is someone who can attempt to explain calmly without pointing failures just for the sake of humiliating, please do. I will try myself.


Quick points I can address quickly:

I will also point out that I was flying a Gateway ID'd ship, you say that means I should not be trading with IMG from an RP point of view? I say Gateway is a shipping company and is free to ship goods to neutral factions if the profit is good, as long as it does not breach the embargo or your rule it would seem.

Gateway is the main shipper to and from IMG bases. To that point, all fine and dandy. I would gladly assist you, if you tried to slip past the enemy through unguarded jump holes to one of the IMG bases without a Kusari battleship above them. The fact that Kusari NPCs aren't shooting at you means you have a messed reputation-sheet. They are -supposed to- shoot at you. As you may remember I was asking about this and it could lead to resolving the matter, if you didn't run and engage cloak at that point.

What I also want to know is why your rule supercedes the server rule on NAVY ID? Which I think states that you may halt and attack vessels of a hostile house if they refuse to drop their cargo or leave the system etc. It does not say that you may demand the same of any trader whatsoever! The admin need to decide which rule has priority here, theirs or yours! Or can I assume that you have admin in your faction and as such the point is moot?

I will point you to the BAF ID

Pilot carrying this ID is in the Bretonia Armed Forces, who :

* Can destroy traders in Bretonia who belong to corporations headquartered in Houses that Bretonia is at war with if the trader refuses to drop all cargo and leave Bretonia,
* Can trade and escort traders,
* Can hunt pirates and terrorists within their Zone of Influence,
* Cannot ally with any unlawfuls except with the Golden Chrysanthemums or Outcasts,
* Cannot participate in any unlawful actions,
* Cannot demand any contraband from anyone within the following systems: New London, Edinburgh, Cambridge, Manchester,
* Cannot fulfill bounty contracts,
* Cannot use any Liners except the Royal Liner and Prison Liner.

Allowed ships: Fighters, Bombers, Freighters, Royal Liners and Prison Liners, Gunboats.
Carrying unmounted IDs in your ship, as well as not equipping an ID, is a serious crime. Scanning for and demanding contraband falls under police jurisdiction unless the Bretonia Armed Forces player is in a system that is NOT listed above in the ID.

Our understanding is, that allows us to lawfully enforce Martial law in Leeds. I also ask you to refrain from attacks on Admins. They are used to them, but that doesn't make it any better.

Anway, when push comes to shove its all over and done with, from now on I shall attempt to run your blockade at every opportunity and will do so in the spirit of RP which is really whats at issue here.

You are welcome to! But understand, that you will be stopped in-RP, there is nothing personal in stopping traders running the blockade. We don't think "Hah, another looser tries to make some profit, let's spoil it". When you are encountered, respond in-RP and don't slip from it.

I would like to point out on that score that I was not the only one talking OOC in this matter, and I was not the one who sent private messages containing profanity and name calling and threatening lifetime bans from the server! I wont name names as it is of no import.

If you have screenshots from any such thing, by all means send them to the admins or to BAF leaders. We won't have it in BAF, and it is of great import to us. If you can't provide any proof, I will have to disregard it. It is extremely easy to take a screenshot of the chat log.

PMs containing OOC aren't a problem when such heated matter arises, they usually help resolve the situation. This of course requires civil manners and the will to resolve it. When you face a larger group and want to resort to this, try to find their leading figure and PM with him. If it's a bit more complicated, you could send one OOC in local chat, asking for it to be brought into PMs, then it would be on the group to decide who will carry the conversation from their side.

[Thexare]

edit: Bah, nevermind. Not worth it.

[Kambei]

This is for "privateers"/privateer part of BAF. [BAF]name-P

Doing piracy in New Tokyo in situation when KNF invaded Leeds is little bit odd since you must travel through whole Kusari empire. It is like from the Lord of the Rings... bunch of hobits (you) must go through whole Middle Earth to eat lambus next to Mount Doom... oh comon, this doesn't make sense. Do sabotage in Kyushu and quickly run away... why not... but this? I can't find any RP in that.

Also it is interesting you are doing it always (not just today guys, as I've noticed) only when server is full, which mean there are no NPC patrols. Of course I dont want blame anyone from exploiting curent NPC settings but.....

Calling Kusarians "stupid Japanese or Japs" is OORP, there are no Japanese in game and players with Japanese origins should take it as nacionalistic abuse.

There is also one more thing.
I must quote Dieter's offical anouncement for that:

Because of limited production capability, for now the use of the Paladin will be restricted to those of Lieutenant Rank and higher.

Interesting but anytime when I see BAF-P (privateer), it is always paladin (or gunboat heh). It is strange how regular army havent enough of this vessels for their soldiers but they can spend any amount of them for privateers.

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[fpsdoug]

I do have one complaint, although it is minor.

So I was flying into Leeds with my Molly Republic bomber and I come across this BAF gunboat near Stokes. Before he starts to fire on me a bunch of KNF start undocking with a battleship and destroyer. Now I tell this BAF guy that we are gonna need to team up and he just keeps firing on me so I have to fight him. I deal with him after taking some damage then one of your higher ups comes in with a bomber and helps me with the KNF. Unfortunately I didn't know battleship missles were so powerful and I was dead in 5 minutes...

If there isn't already some BAF rule could you please state that KNF is your first priority? Unless of course a lone Molly Barghest is more important than a small fleet.

[Unseelie]

Kambie: To begin, Privateers start above Lt. Captanis all, I believe...maybe commanders.

To get to NT, I believe there are above 6 routes that avoid all of the 'kusari blockade'
One of which drops from the battleship stirling in Dundee, to Tau 31, then jumps through the taus, through Hokkaido(still friendly space for the BAF) and directly into NT.

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[Dieter Schprokets]

Privateers are deemed Lt Commanders.

What Unselie said abotu reaching Kusari.

And yeah, FPSDoug, Mollies should be lower on the priority list than KNF.

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[mjolnir]

Well what can I say

Yes you can evade in a Paladin everytime you loose your shield, yes you can use a GB to feed him with bots forever.

Yes it's good "RP".

Does it promote "fairplay"? Not much.

Should we all now start to use the most unfair tactics we can find? Would make it lovely really.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.