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hack · 04-13-2009, 04:15 PM,

' Wrote:The faction feedback threads are remarkably quiet - no news is good news, I imagine.

Agreed. If there isn't anything in the faction feedback, there musn't be anything wrong.

Formerly known as LPI Police Chief Hull O'Brien.
Creator of Sgt. V. Price, 207th Precinct out of Chula Vista Station

beander2 · 04-13-2009, 04:34 PM,

' Wrote:I can see several problems with a publicized period of community feedback, and I call it fondly the "squeaky wheel" approach to game-play. Behold the many/few who do find reason after reason to lambast directly or indirectly the gameplay of others. Several people in the community apparently bear personal grudges against other players - for a variety of reasons, none of which, in my experience, reflects well on the mental health of those bearing said grudges. Are we to be judged by our peers or the admins or the forum trolls?

I'm not denying any of this, Athenian. I see it quite a bit, of course. But I've also had pretty fair success at getting constructive feedback from a variety of people - some who are dismissed by others - by approaching them courteously and taking them seriously. When they realized what I was doing - that I was being genuine - they stepped up to the plate with mature responses. That has been my experience through the founding of three factions, two official and one unofficial.

I'm not advocating a specific method here. I'm reacting to a couple of things: (1) official factions who think they don't need community feedback or regular critique of their RP and activities, and (2) dismissive attitudes, over-generalizations about people, and the belief that the community needs to be structured around our worst tendencies rather than our best. I think both of these are dead wrong.

Quote:The faction feedback threads are remarkably quiet - no news is good news, I imagine.

' Wrote:Agreed. If there isn't anything in the faction feedback, there musn't be anything wrong.

Sorry, not necessarily true at all, particularly in situations where people feel intimidated by factions, or it is the factions themselves who are the "squeakiest wheels."

Edit: Sorry again about the off-topic. Maybe we need a split here.

Sir Alisdair Buchanan, KBE ~ Gateway)Trafalgar

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OldTimerAL · 04-13-2009, 04:34 PM,

' Wrote:I have no real trouble distinguishing my [+] from my TBH from my HAF from my OPG...
They all stink like something died and crawled to rat heaven.

... Not to spoil your fun lad, but [+] is actually [TBH] also known as The Brotherhood ... and as for the stink part it's not needed ...

As for the number of factions, official or un-official, I don't really think they should be restricted to a specific number, as Del already pointed out:

' Wrote:The limitation of freedom is also a big no-no

Cheers.

Omne tulit punctum qui miscuit utile dulci.

Grimly · 04-13-2009, 04:37 PM,

The problem with official faction is it sounds like a few guys who said "yay I'll get a battle**** and any others will have to get smaller ships so I pwn 'em all".

Unfortunately, that rank thing any factions have is telling this.

Look at the [RA] for example, they are all using OC destroyers with like no superiority while the LN recruits can't even get nuclear mines, sunslayers or razors for a fighter. Well that's why I left the LN and why I won't join any official factions but the 2 I'm in.

I'm in OPG, and it could be also any corsair faction, cause it's really easy to reach the marauder rank that allow you to get any ship up to gunboats. Even a rat can have a bomber with everything he want (limited to what rules allow of course) mounted on. Also I have access to one of their cruisers if I want to use it.
Only thing you have to do if you want a big corsair ship is to do not include [OPG] in the name.

I'm in the Lane Hacker not for playing as I want to (I got my bellerophon in liberty as well) but only having fun, but nevertheless, you can have a pirate transport as technician, that gives enough power and cargo to be a real treat to traders.

Unofficials are just here for some guys can enjoy the capital ships without having to waste so much time before they can have their ships.

I'd say "Let them all be !"

Taking what's yours since 816 A.S.

swift · 04-13-2009, 04:43 PM,

' Wrote:The problem with official faction is it sounds like a few guys who said "yay I'll get a battle**** and any others will have to get smaller ships so I pwn 'em all".

Unfortunately, that rank thing any factions have is telling this.

Look at the [RA] for example, they are all using OC destroyers with like no superiority while the LN recruits can't even get nuclear mines, sunslayers or razors for a fighter. Well that's why I left the LN and why I won't join any official factions but the 2 I'm in.

I'm in OPG, and it could be also any corsair faction, cause it's really easy to reach the marauder rank that allow you to get any ship up to gunboats. Even a rat can have a bomber with everything he want (limited to what rules allow of course) mounted on. Also I have access to one of their cruisers if I want to use it.
Only thing you have to do if you want a big corsair ship is to do not include [OPG] in the name.

I'm in the Lane Hacker not for playing as I want to (I got my bellerophon in liberty as well) but only having fun, but nevertheless, you can have a pirate transport as technician, that gives enough power and cargo to be a real treat to traders.
Unofficials are just here for some guys can enjoy the capital ships without having to waste so much time before they can have their ships.

I'd say "Let them all be !"

Perhaps. I just wish, however, that unofficial factions could be reasoned with like official ones, and not the fact existing that they can do whatever they wish, behave out of role play, but RP just enough to skim by and not to break the rules.

Official factions at least react to constructive criticism, and lord knows official ones can't get away with the things the unofficial ones do.

And in view of the thread as a whole, my personal opinion, let them be, though some more interaction and ability to post feedback on unofficial ones'd be nice, but I do understand that the server would be worse off with draconic rules and what not.

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Thexare · (This post was last modified: 04-13-2009, 05:18 PM by Thexare.)

' Wrote:and as for the stink part it's not needed ...

He plays Outcasts and Mollys, among others. I think that was a joke based on that.

Anyway, I don't think more rules are really needed, and as has been said, a tag - even unofficial - is often easier to remember than a character name. To pull up a slightly outdated example, which would you remember more easily - [SL-M]Ayumu.Ishida or just plaing Ayumu.Ishida? Maybe you'll get the name wrong either way, but the tag will probably stick out enough.

Quote:Perhaps. I just wish, however, that unofficial factions could be reasoned with like official ones, and not the fact existing that they can do whatever they wish, behave out of role play, but RP just enough to skim by and not to break the rules.

Official factions at least react to constructive criticism, and lord knows official ones can't get away with the things the unofficial ones do.

Hooray for generalizations! Yeah, a lot of them are like that, but this is like me saying that the Liberty Navy is just a bunch of capwhores - sure, it's true of a few individual independents, but many people in that role, both indie and faction, fly fighters and bombers or use their capitals responsibly.

What you just said is the same line of thinking that leads to people calling Bounty Hunters a bunch of cap-abusing PVP whores, or at least did so back in 4.84 - holding the sins of individuals against the entire group. We're better than that around here, aren't we?

swift · 04-13-2009, 05:24 PM,

' Wrote:Hooray for generalizations! Yeah, a lot of them are like that, but this is like me saying that the Liberty Navy is just a bunch of capwhores - sure, it's true of a few individual independents, but many people in that role, both indie and faction, fly fighters and bombers or use their capitals responsibly.

What you just said is the same line of thinking that leads to people calling Bounty Hunters a bunch of cap-abusing PVP whores, or at least did so back in 4.84 - holding the sins of individuals against the entire group. We're better than that around here, aren't we?

Perhaps you mistook the intended meaning of my statement.

As someone who generally fights against such generalizations, I'm also kind of offended to have someone jumping to conclusions like that.

What I *meant*, is that *some* are like that.

There's weed in every crop, my friend, that being indies, unofficial factions, or official factions alike.
However, all official factions can be, I use this word with caution, complained against, called out to improve if their behavior does not measure up to what it should be.

However, *some* unofficial factions, and I stress that 'some', who behave well.. let's not say bad, but not good, can't be talked to, and even if they are, they can always just ignore you.

If say.. some official faction goes and hunts LFs with a battleship, people'd start forwarding complaints to their faction leaders and things could get better, but with *sigh* some unofficial ones, it's not always possible.

Now, did I say the word 'some' enough times to your satisfaction? :sleep:

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Thexare · (This post was last modified: 04-13-2009, 05:36 PM by Thexare.)

You completely omitted the word "some" in your previous post. I'm sure you can see, then, where my interpretation came from - especially if you've also seen all those "bounty hunter pvp whore" topics, and hell, I think CR might've been on the receiving end of one or two group bashes.

Good to get that cleared up, though, and I do agree with you about there being problems with every category. I do wish more people would realize that official factions aren't automatically good, but I'll spare everyone here my rant about some of them.

Sorry about the mistake. At least I didn't snap at you like I did at half the people in that last "bounty hunter pvpwhore" topic.

swift · 04-13-2009, 05:40 PM,

' Wrote:You completely omitted the word "some" in your previous post. I'm sure you can see, then, where my interpretation came from - especially if you've also seen all those "bounty hunter pvp whore" topics, and hell, I think CR might've been on the receiving end of one or two group bashes.

Good to get that cleared up, though, and I do agree with you about there being problems with every category. I do wish more people would realize that official factions aren't automatically good, but I'll spare everyone here my rant about some of them.

Sorry about the mistake. At least I didn't snap at you like I did at half the people in that last "bounty hunter pvpwhore" topic.

Being in CR just made me more sympathetic to what you said about Hunter abuse that was happening.
I've always just tried to remain calm and just rebut all the 'you suck' arguments.

Too bad the border between constructive criticism and flaming is thin and some confuse one for the other.
It's a good catalyst for positive change though, and that was kinda the point of my post, expressing the fact that unofficial factions and indies don't have feedback threads.

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Ayem · (This post was last modified: 04-13-2009, 05:49 PM by Ayem.)

There may not be feedback threads for Indies, but that doesn't stop people talking about them, or making themselves known in threads they themselves start. [RA] are mentioned in this thread for example, and some people have mentioned what they think. That's all a feedback thread is. People writing what they think.

Blunt's recent locked CR thread is feedback on an official faction, outside of their feedback thread.

And yes, the stink was a joke, because I'm an Outcast and a Molly. Also I knew the [+] are also part of The Brotherhood, or somehow affiliated, or just the sex slaves of aforementioned faction. They've got a different tag though, so they are "different".

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