Zoner sub-division

[kuth]

I personally like the division of Zoners, it's more... Zonerish. Some control certain Freeports, some control others, with more disputed or under the protection of some unaligned Zoner.

I agree with this and I know of a handful of other Zoners do. The problem? Other people QQ about the number of sub groups we have.

Now, it's not the disorganization of the Zoners themselves that I complain about.

It's the fact that if I want to talk to someone about doing X thing at Y Freeport, I don't know who to talk to about it.

There is a thread. You post it there and usually any number of Zoners will help. Regardless of affilation.

]
With the collapse of the Zoners...comes the collapse of the universe. I see all these official factions trying to dominate the indies[/b], but as the owner of two indies, I believe we can say to hell with them all and do our own damn thing. The Zoners have collapsed. There will be in-fighting until an official faction is accepted.

I am going to have to call bull**** on this bolded/underlined part. The factions have made no attempt to dominate the indies. If they had, they would have taken over the CoZ by sheer force in numbers. They didn't. Please keep your petty opinions to yourself.

As for the in fighting? It makes for some intresting RP doesn't it?

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Lurker

[jammi]

Stuff about admin enforced NFZs.

Remember, the NFZs aren't vanillia. They aren't lore. They aren't the admin's responsibility. The Zoner players as a whole invented them, and now enforce them. It's down to them to do this enforcing, not the admins through reputation tweaks.

Player rule does not = server rule.

We're too pacifist for anything to escalate to something like that.

So, why the capital ships?

I like the division though. So much more... Anarchy.

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[Thurgret]

Zoner official factions - [TAZ], OSI-, (]c[) - are able to ask the admins to repfix a person to be hostile to Zoners, by the by.

Also, the official factions have never tried to dominate independent players. Any Zoner political bodies have been entirely opt-in/opt-out, unless I've missed something.

[Dab]

There is a thread. You post it there and usually any number of Zoners will help. Regardless of affilation.
I am going to have to call bull**** on this bolded/underlined part. The factions have made no attempt to dominate the indies. If they had, they would have taken over the CoZ by sheer force in numbers. They didn't. Please keep your petty opinions to yourself.

The factions admitted to it.. And perhaps you should try responding politely, that post is quite offensive to him, and all he did was state his opinion on how he thought the factions were behaving. He isn't the only one thinking that way either..

Remember, the NFZs aren't vanillia. They aren't lore.

Remind me when I get home to show you those vanilla rumors/infocards about the NFZ around Ames Research. You'll find you're wrong here.

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[DAnvilFan]

Well, I have most of my Zoner assets on FP2 and, I think I will pull a Jinx and declare myself king.

You must be talking about Mr.White, the newly self-declared logistics manager of Freeport 14.

Jinx, or rather Ms.Tate, never declared herself king of anything. She just asked folks to recognize FP11 as completely independent, which most everyone did. Ms.Tate has not controlled FP11 in any way.

People complain only at who they want to complain.

The factions admitted to it..

Louisa Salome stating that she would prefer if CoZ dissolved itself, in a fit of anger, does not qualify as "the factions admitted to it." We did not make a statement saying, "Hence forth, CoZ is dissolved."

For all of you screaming "faction power grab:" The factions were getting ready to give CoZ sovereignty in O-49, plus the NFZ around 4 other bases over the Zoner Alliance. Read -- CoZ's law would overrule that of the ZA in any one of those territories. This proposal was rejected in the CoZ Skype chat on the account that the factions were trying to split territory.

Jumping to conclusions as always.

[Dab]

You must be talking about Mr.White, the newly self-declared logistics manager of Freeport 14.

Jinx, or rather Ms.Tate, never declared herself king of anything. She just asked folks to recognize FP11 as completely independent, which most everyone did. Ms.Tate has not controlled FP11 in any way.

Jinx didn't ask people to recognize FP11 as independent, she up and declared herself the 'guardian of Freeport 11' and the person in charge of all diplomatic and managerial duties of Freeport 11. That's exactly what Nooblet is referring to.. And Nooblet is right.

And I think the count so far is nearing three months since I last saw Jinx in-game. Maybe more. What people want to know is why she thought she had the right to do that kind of RP when there were people RPing as citizens of Freeport 11, and had been for quite some time, and not a single one of them was ever contacted about the decision. Nor was anything said to the public until the 'grand announcement'. It all happened 'behind closed doors' so-to-speak. That's why people, myself included, are upset about the whole FP11 situation. It was a complete powerplay by Jinx, who doesn't even come in-game.. Ever.

To summarize; Did Jinx act like the 'King' of Freeport 11? Yes.

People complain only at who they want to complain.
Louisa Salome stating that she would prefer if CoZ dissolved itself, in a fit of anger, does not qualify as "the factions admitted to it." We did not make a statement saying, "Hence forth, CoZ is dissolved."

For all of you screaming "faction power grab:" The factions were getting ready to give CoZ sovereignty in O-49, plus the NFZ around 4 other bases over the Zoner Alliance. Read -- CoZ's law would overrule that of the ZA in any one of those territories. This proposal was rejected in the CoZ Skype chat on the account that the factions were trying to split territory.

Jumping to conclusions as always.

Lou leads one of the factions.. Samuel Nichols said something along the same lines. He leads one of the other factions. That's two out of three factions saying it. I'd call that admitting it.

And the proposal, which was never sent in-RP or on the forums mind you, was rejected for very clear and simple reasons;

Yes, the factions were trying to split up territory and dole it out. The Council of Zoners is completely against any version of that idea for the simple reason that we don't agree with the concept of any Zoner body holding 'territory' beyond guard systems. Omicron-74 is ZTC's, Baffin is TAZ', we don't care about that at all. But we'll be damned if ZTC is trying to claim Freeport 9 as theirs. That is one reason.

The other reason is the the places the factions wanted to give CoZ were the most tense and hostile stations. Omega-49, Corsair/Hessian/Molly battleground. Freeport 1, BAF/Hessian/Corsair battleground and an issue with Bretonia for a long time. Freeport 2, RM/LN/Unioner battleground. 1 other station that you didn't name.

That's handing CoZ the stations most likely to give us trouble, so the factions can say 'We aren't in charge, don't blame us!'


Is it really that difficult to understand why we didn't like the idea?


You're making legislation that is drastically slanted in your favor, then try to blame us because we reject the idea.. If you came up with a legitimate deal that is actually plausible from our standpoint, you'll have more luck. Simple fact however; Don't try slicing up territory and doling it out, as we'll never accept that.


Perhaps you're the one who jumped to conclusions. Don't presume to be our conscience, nor know our thoughts.

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[Jinx]

well, dab - you have to be more attentive.

firstly: it was RPed that i would be a spokesperson for the station command ( which i always treated as a different entitiy that is not myself ) - making cooperative posts to various factions prior to the move to independence ( something you might learn from - cooperation )

secondly: you really need to open your eyes. - i am online pretty much on a daily base.

at least once per day on the persephone, sometimes on "jinx" and - you may be surprised - sometimes on one of my variour incogonito chars which you do not know about ( since you - in other places - thought that i do only really RP zoners:laugh:)


you are very quick to tell people not to make assumptions - yet, you do them yourself here.



so - althought i did not really wish to post in that thread, cause it doesn t concern me much.


freeport 11 was declared independent after chatting with EVERY surrounding faction more than a week before i made a public move. - the independence - as stated ( if you had read carefully ) makes the station indeed .... independent.... with NO guardian other than those that dedicate t hemselves.

which - surprisingly as it might seem ( cause not everyone is after political power ) - includes really everyone who is dedicated ( isn t it nice when sometimes the term matches reality? )

so - if even you, dab, wished to be a fp11 guardian - be my guest - build up your reputation, do your job... have fun. - and ...

i really mean it. - i do actually wish you fun and i do invite you with open arms. - become a guardian of fp11 - we are not playing "restrict others" - do as you please, be what you like...



to close that comment... - i roleplay as i like... and i care a lot about cooperation. - i wish not to make any major move without coordinating it with the players concerned. - i wouldn t change globals without asking for extensive feedback EVER... i would inform anyone that is affected by changes if ever possible.

i do hope, you respect others as much when you make changes that affect others.

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[Dab]

well, dab - you have to be more attentive.

firstly: it was RPed that i would be a spokesperson for the station command ( which i always treated as a different entitiy that is not myself ) - making cooperative posts to various factions prior to the move to independence ( something you might learn from - cooperation )

RPing as the spokesperson for a group that isn't represented by players pretty much means you are making the decisions in their name. That's the exact same thing as acting like the ruler.. Which you did.

secondly: you really need to open your eyes. - i am online pretty much on a daily base.

at least once per day on the persephone, sometimes on "jinx" and - you may be surprised - sometimes on one of my variour incogonito chars which you do not know about ( since you - in other places - thought that i do only really RP zoners:laugh:)

I have yet to see the Persephone once in three months. I talked with two other players, one of who was out at Freeport 11 prior to your 'taking over' for hours at a time every single day. He didn't see you either. The second person was there a lot too.. Never saw you.. That's three very active players, none of who ever saw you in-game in months on your Zoner character.. And yes, I'm concerned about your Zoner character. If you're on your other characters, that isn't you being Ms. Tate, is it? A faction leader can't lead a faction if he never plays as that faction.. A Zoner can't control a Freeport if he never plays his Zoner. Simple as that.

freeport 11 was declared independent after chatting with EVERY surrounding faction more than a week before i made a public move.

Every surrounding faction.. But not the Zoners who played the role of Freeport 11's inhabitants? Who's opinion is more important, the Orders or the people who live on Freeport 11? Hint; The latter is the correct answer here.

- the independence - as stated ( if you had read carefully ) makes the station indeed .... independent.... with NO guardian other than those that dedicate t hemselves.

firstly: it was RPed that i would be a spokesperson for the station command

Spokesperson is the exact same thing. Especially spokesperson for a station command that does not exist. That puts you in charge. You're just trying to cover the issue with icing. You declared yourself in control from the start. By taking the position as 'mouth' of the station command, that is precisely what you did.

so - if even you, dab, wished to be a fp11 guardian - be my guest - build up your reputation, do your job... have fun. - and ...

What about the people who already were? And how can anyone believe you when the people who WERE RPing as citizens of Freeport 11 were completely ignored in your desperate grab for Freeport 11? You talked to non-Zoner factions and players.. And completely ignored the Zoner players themselves in this. Yes, you talked with the Zoner factions.. But they don't inhabit Freeport 11 like several indy Zoners did. The indy Zoners you didn't allow to have a choice in the decision. That's why people were, and are, angry with you.

to close that comment... - i roleplay as i like... and i care a lot about cooperation. - i wish not to make any major move without coordinating it with the players concerned. - i wouldn t change globals without asking for extensive feedback EVER... i would inform anyone that is affected by changes if ever possible.

You already did make a major move without coordinating it with the players concerned. As I said above; You talked to non-Zoners, and ignored the most important players to the situation - The Zoner players who based on Freeport 11. You're actions contradict your words Jinx.

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[DAnvilFan]

Jinx didn't ask people to recognize FP11 as independent, she up and declared herself the 'guardian of Freeport 11' and the person in charge of all diplomatic and managerial duties of Freeport 11. That's exactly what Nooblet is referring to.. And Nooblet is right.

If the factions, plus other foreign organizations, had opposed Tate's proposal -- she could make as many announcements about "independence of FP11" as she wanted. It wouldn't have happened without the approval of the majority.

Yes, the factions were trying to split up territory and dole it out. The Council of Zoners is completely against any version of that idea for the simple reason that we don't agree with the concept of any Zoner body holding 'territory' beyond guard systems. Omicron-74 is ZTC's, Baffin is TAZ', we don't care about that at all. But we'll be damned if ZTC is trying to claim Freeport 9 as theirs. That is one reason.

That's not what I was told that day. What I was told is that Zoner Alliance was giving CoZ that territory in order to later take other territory for ourselves. Like your example with FP9. All assumptions.

The other reason is the the places the factions wanted to give CoZ were the most tense and hostile stations. Omega-49, Corsair/Hessian/Molly battleground. Freeport 1, BAF/Hessian/Corsair battleground and an issue with Bretonia for a long time. Freeport 2, RM/LN/Unioner battleground. 1 other station that you didn't name.

That's handing CoZ the stations most likely to give us trouble, so the factions can say 'We aren't in charge, don't blame us!'

Omega-49 was desolate when I came to you with the proposal. The minefield was gone, QCP had left, and OPG stopped pirating near the jump hole on account that the Deut-Organ trade run was nerfed. We chose O-49 because it had a long history with the Council of Zoners more so than any other system. CoZ wanted to move their HQ from Corinth Research Station to Gran Canaria on several occassions.

We chose Freeport 1, 2, and Bethlehem because they were included in the Bethlehem treaty. The factions were against the Bethlehem treaty. Our proposal would have allowed you to enforce it with faction members getting punished for violating the Treaty, as that would equal breaking the law. Thanks to paranoid beliefs that the ZA wanted to screw CoZ, the Bethlehem Treaty is now completely ignored by every Zoner faction.

You want to talk dangerous Freeport stations?
Freeport 11 -- Bounty Hunter / Order / Corsair / Keeper cluster****
Freeport 10 -- daily Outcast / IMG / CR conflict
Freeport 9 -- daily BHG / Outcast / Corsair / Freelancer skirmishes

If we wanted to sabotage CoZ, we would have put at least one of those in the proposal. I'm stationed on Freeport 9 daily, so I will vouch for it. I will also vouch for Freeport 1 being near deserted after stationing my Roc there for 2 weeks.

[Jinx]

on you, dab - i apply my usual policy of relaxed amusement.

feel free to think and do whatever you like - for the greater good and the benefit of everyone and yourself.

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