Agreed with the above but with a couple of caveats...
The problem is and always has been the war never gets played out--it doesn't get played at all. Having a game rule take the place of play development (ie. "Junkers can't land") doesn't deepen or enhance much. It is very much a case where there is a need for Hogosha and others to develop the RP there so it is more robust--even if subtle.
Going into Kusari is something Junkers should not normally do--passing through it? Different story. No different than in the trade wars between France, Spain and England sailing though "each other's" oceans. Space is big--Junkers can and will pass though for a variety of reason. Just not hang out or parade.
The rp of Hogosha has been really demoted as Farmers primarily have co-opted their role play and inadvertently stagnated variety in it. Hogosha should be very diverse (as are Junkers). Kishiro's fear of the government and simmering resentment of Samura's "golden" status with it is also underplayed. The fact that Samura quite smugly uses Hogosha to help maintain their edge over Kishiro would aggravate this even more. Kishiro's situation might be very similar to the Gallic Metal Service's in Gallia.
I've never liked the "all for one and one for all" mentality of the varying groups. I lived in Japan for two years and what is true for dogs is true in their business political structure:
Quote:Everyone has a number that indicates their importance and level to which they may dominate and are submitted to and no one has the same number--you are higher or lower.
A Junker would be beneath all but that doesn't automatically equate to, "We all attack them in unison." Working with an inferior can demote one's standing. Being shrewd to use a "non-person" can be seen as wise and successful. Japanese (Kusari) really are subtle in their nuances in many things. I've talked to Muslims who have said, "Lying to non-Muslims" is not a sin in our perspective as it would be to lie to a fellow Muslim." Kusari would be the same way. They might see using and manipulating an outside party as good but never be willing to accept a rival Kusari they see as lower as a peer.
Dragons are always understaffed and not my area of expertise but would be good to see real Dragon structure. And while I applaud the innovation of GC women being cardamine fiends, I think that would not define all GC. Many would be normal, working class women wanting political rights nd quite put off by offers of drug acceptance.
Just some thoughts but the big one is I have yet to see a server even do passing justice to the Kusari-Junker rivalry. Would be nice to see,
That's a rather harsh analysis of conduct on behalf of the player groups within Kusari Tinkerbell. Perhaps you could clear up your analysis of how you feel the two parties should interact for the more thick headed members of the community, such as myself.
' Wrote:The problem is and always has been the war never gets played out--it doesn't get played at all. Having a game rule take the place of play development (ie. "Junkers can't land") doesn't deepen or enhance much. It is very much a case where there is a need for Hogosha and others to develop the RP there so it is more robust--even if subtle.
What I see this as is a blanket ban for stupidity. People don't understand that people wouldn't buy stuff from Junkers, and so all Junkers suffer. It's not any one person's fault, just the majority of Junker indies.
' Wrote:Going into Kusari is something Junkers should not normally do--passing through it? Different story. No different than in the trade wars between France, Spain and England sailing though "each other's" oceans. Space is big--Junkers can and will pass though for a variety of reason. Just not hang out or parade.
Of course Junkers can pass through. It makes sense that they would pass through, only everyone would look at 'em with shifty eyes. Of course, how this explains a certain Junker Barge logging off in New Tokyo is a fine question. :dry:
' Wrote:The rp of Hogosha has been really demoted as Farmers primarily have co-opted their role play and inadvertently stagnated variety in it. Hogosha should be very diverse (as are Junkers). Kishiro's fear of the government and simmering resentment of Samura's "golden" status with it is also underplayed. The fact that Samura quite smugly uses Hogosha to help maintain their edge over Kishiro would aggravate this even more. Kishiro's situation might be very similar to the Gallic Metal Service's in Gallia.
Demoted? Hogosha RP is still quite different from FA RP (Which, mind you, hasn't changed). They don't blatantly pirate people, they have smuggling opportunities, they aren't controlled by Samura. There is a large difference between Hogosha and FA RP. The Junker situation is simply a crossroads in that. Quite frankly, I don't know how people are so adverse to it when it's a rather minor edition that makes more sense than things other factions have done...
' Wrote:I've never liked the "all for one and one for all" mentality of the varying groups. I lived in Japan for two years and what is true for dogs is true in their business political structure:
A Junker would be beneath all but that doesn't automatically equate to, "We all attack them in unison." Working with an inferior can demote one's standing. Being shrewd to use a "non-person" can be seen as wise and successful. Japanese (Kusari) really are subtle in their nuances in many things. I've talked to Muslims who have said, "Lying to non-Muslims" is not a sin in our perspective as it would be to lie to a fellow Muslim." Kusari would be the same way. They might see using and manipulating an outside party as good but never be willing to accept a rival Kusari they see as lower as a peer.
Dragons are always understaffed and not my area of expertise but would be good to see real Dragon structure. And while I applaud the innovation of GC women being cardamine fiends, I think that would not define all GC. Many would be normal, working class women wanting political rights nd quite put off by offers of drug acceptance.
Just some thoughts but the big one is I have yet to see a server even do passing justice to the Kusari-Junker rivalry. Would be nice to see.
Of course that is the way it is, and that is the way I have seen the Black Dragons play it out with most gaijin. The fact with the FA is that we're payed to ruin foreign business. If we don't ruin foreign business, we aren't doing our job. In such a manners as piracy, we do ruin foreign business. I'm sorry if you don't like our RP, take it up with Microsoft when they scripted us.
Also, if you'd like to start doing justice to Kusari-Junker wars, start talking on your Barge when I talk at you for five minutes.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
That actually isn't a critique of players. That's the current state. Nothing I said was meant to knock anyone down in that.
The Hogosha have been for some time mostly inactive and the Farmers have primarily represented their interests--that's not a criticism of Farmer players its a statement of fact. I didn't say their role play was bad or wrong... but because a primarily single group of non-Hogosha majority (Farmers and some KNF) have represented them by proxy, the actual role play of HOGOSHA (who I am primarily talking about) has stayed very two-dimensional.
I don't disagree with the ban and that comment was not intended as a slap--but my point is that doesn't change the lack of development in the things I addressed.
Hogosha players--in a perfect situation--would develop a variety of core activities that could really define them.
I wasn't addressing game balance, lack of players or personalities and nothing I said should have been taken personally (haha--like that will ever happen here).
In real short to the point speech: I'd like to see the Hogosha rp developed by dedicated Hogosha players so Junkers could be more interactive with them rather than the "Kusari soup" situation we have now. I understand why its that way--I'd just like to see more Hogosha done well. I'm not critisizing anyone's faction I'm simplay saying we have an amalgam and it would be great to see more distinction.
Thanks.
Regarding the barge--it is usually logged out in space as it often is stuck docking or even "hung" in a cut scene. Add a one minute delay and that is why I might be "ignoring" you. I'm not intentionally. Most likely you are pming me at that time.
Just to answer Dusty (sarcasm noted)...apologies to the offended. Sorry. I'm just "talking: about development--not "you" and am tired enough not to want to spend hours couching statements in pc containers.
I'd like to see:
A Dragon once in awhile doing something Dragonish--not just "attacking". (I know there have not been a lot of them around but now there are).
Hogosha with their own specific take on Kusari politics/activity--preferably more than one group (even if they are small groups).
Kishiro playing more its anti-Samura role (they seem fine when I have encountered them--I just never get this)
Role play when I have been there is "Hello Kusari Friend" or "Beat it/Die Gaiajin" and "Stop for contraband check". All these are fine but that's all I get to see most times. The intrigue iswhat's intriguing in Kusari. I'd like more Kusari groups doing intrigue with non-Kusari ones. Stopping people and attacking and taxing and killing Junkers is fine aside from that. There is a lot of intrigue within Kusari amongst Kusari players but it isn't visible to anyone else most times.
' Wrote:Dragons are always understaffed and not my area of expertise but would be good to see real Dragon structure. And while I applaud the innovation of GC women being cardamine fiends, I think that would not define all GC. Many would be normal, working class women wanting political rights nd quite put off by offers of drug acceptance.
I'll let Bacon handle the other parts, but you're a bit wrong about the GC. By definition, they'd be required to be addicted to cardamine as part of joining the GC. It's their major line of defense - the reason no one has infiltrated them. If they weren't the cardamine-types, they'd be more supporters at best.
' Wrote:I'll let Bacon handle the other parts, but you're a bit wrong about the GC. By definition, they'd be required to be addicted to cardamine as part of joining the GC. It's their major line of defense - the reason no one has infiltrated them. If they weren't the cardamine-types, they'd be more supporters at best.
As it stands now that's true--but do all GC have to be cardamine addicted? Women's rights in the 60's U.S. had free love, abortion on demand, bra burning women and simple housewives wanting equality that were nothing like them. Both were "femininsts". I think the cardamine angle works fine but women's rights would be an equally important factor from what I read?
' Wrote:As it stands now that's true--but do all GC have to be cardamine addicted? Women's rights in the 60's U.S. had free love, abortion on demand, bra burning women and simple housewives wanting equality that were nothing like them. Both were "femininsts". I think the cardamine angle works fine but women's rights would be an equally important factor from what I read?
Well, based on the in game lore, yes. There are certainly many women who support them otherwise, but they wouldn't be the "GC". As a comparison, not everyone collecting scrap metal is a Junker
' Wrote:Well, based on the in game lore, yes. There are certainly many women who support them otherwise, but they wouldn't be the "GC". As a comparison, not everyone collecting scrap metal is a Junker
Makes sense--so bring "cardamine and candy" when visiting the GC.
Tink, mind if I call you Tink? I'm going to call you Tink.
I know you are referring to the Hogosha as a whole quite intentionally, but since the only Hogosha players that are active are the Black Dragons, we can go ahead and stop skirting around the subject and use names here.
' Wrote:the actual role play of HOGOSHA (who I am primarily talking about) has stayed very two-dimensional.
' Wrote:Hogosha players--in a perfect situation--would develop a variety of core activities that could really define them.
Mind giving a couple examples of what you mean by that? I would love to know how you think the RP of the Black Dragons is very two-dimensional. Honestly, it's the first time we've ever been accused of that.
' Wrote:In real short to the point speech: I'd like to see the Hogosha rp developed by dedicated Hogosha players so Junkers could be more interactive with them rather than the "Kusari soup" situation we have now. I understand why its that way--I'd just like to see more Hogosha done well. I'm not critisizing anyone's faction I'm simplay saying we have an amalgam and it would be great to see more distinction.
Most of the Black Dragons are only in the Black Dragons and maybe one other faction. Most of those are in some sort of trader faction. We have one of the most dedicated groups of players I've ever seen, by dedicated I mean playing almost solely as one faction. I think I'm the only one that is in more than 2 factions (Black Dragons, RM, TBH, and now ]bd[).
Yes we work very closely with the AFA, that however is not because we share the same goals. We don't, at all. We do share similar goals, but more than that our close ties are due to mutual support, mutual protection, and ties with Samura. Our RP is very different, if you haven't noticed that then you haven't been paying that close of attention.
I'm all for constructive criticism, in fact I welcome it with open arms. If you have ideas on ways to improve our RP, and ways to further enhance the Hogosha/Junker conflict then please let me know. I realize we've never really interacted with Junkers much unless they enter Kusari, but that is not because we don't want to. It's because we're a smaller sized faction that has a lot on our plate. Recently not as much, but in the past we were dealing with constant BAF attacks, GC, smugglers trying to move in on Hogosha territory, etc.
' Wrote:The problem is and always has been the war never gets played out--it doesn't get played at all. Having a game rule take the place of play development (ie. "Junkers can't land") doesn't deepen or enhance much. It is very much a case where there is a need for Hogosha and others to develop the RP there so it is more robust--even if subtle.
The big problem here is from the tons of indie Junkers that have been trying to use the Junker ID to power trade much like the old Zoner ID and the new Zoner Guard ID. I'd say a good 75% of these Junker trader/smugglers know absolutely nothing about the Hogosha/Junker rivalry and are totally clueless when we confront them in Kusari. They almost always say thing such as; "You can't stop me, you aren't police." "So what if I'm smuggling, so are you, you aren't police." "I'll call the KNF cause you're pirating me!"