Admin input needed

[sindroms]

[11:07:16] --------: Hello, got a moment?
[11:07:37] Sindroms Spazzydragon: Yeye.
[11:07:43] --------: I was thinking about hiring JZ
[11:07:59] Sindroms Spazzydragon: Do tell, --------, right?
[11:08:51] --------: The problem is the last time we hired zoners to jump us OSI complained across the forums that it was ooRP that zoners would never sell jumping services to anyone, and anyone who did would be FR5ed, I just wanted to know how you get around that?
[11:45:21] --------: They harassed the last guy that jumped for us into leaving the game




Simple as that. A player faction threatening to FR5 players they do not directly interact with, because another group deals with them. Do factions have rights to do this and if they do, what is the reasoning behind it.

Admins, are you okay with this? If not, how should this be dealt with.

Well first of all, make this sort of politics open to public with a thread like this. This is not a flame thread or trial by forum, because no written rules have been broken and replacing the OSI with ''Anonymous'' would serve no purpose, because there is only one group that can submit FR5 requests anyway. Would be a bit too obvious.









So the situation is this. A large npc group has a faction, which represents a part of said group. Unlike navy or police factions, where player factions represent the whole navy. Does such a group within group, even more so, of a neutral faction, have any right to request FR5 implementation on individuals interacting with unofficial groups of the same ID.

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[Echo 7-7]

FR5 can only be applied by a faction which experiences some form of interaction with the offending party.

This can be through intermediary parties, if they provide evidence for the FR5, which the faction then uses as a basis to communicate with the offending party.

For example:

The Police see a Freelancer shooting traders, and then docks on a Navy Battleship. The Police send the evidence to the Navy (since no Navy players were present) to the Navy HQ. Navy HQ goes to the Communication Channel and says "Get the hell out or die", and can then file the FR5.


Note that currently an Official Faction cannot use FR5 on ships/characters with the same ID; they can only use FR2, and then file for a 6.9 sanction if these orders are not heeded.


To bring this back to your example, OSI cannot FR5 Zoner indies. Many Official Faction leaders wish they could (myself included) FR5 their own indies, such that the ID is removed from the ship as well as the reputation being set hostile, but that is simply how the rules and Faction rights currently work.

NB: Faction Rights are now merged into the rules under section 4.

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There was a sig here, once.

[sindroms]

Echo, it is not about zoners sanctioning zoners, but zoners sanctioning someone who is trying to communicate with a different zoner group.

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[Echo 7-7]

Echo, it is not about zoners sanctioning zoners, but zoners sanctioning someone who is trying to communicate with a different zoner group.

Misread, then.

OSI can't FR5 the people dealing with the Zoner indies if they have no Roleplay interaction with that party. That is part of the requirement for a FR5 application.

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There was a sig here, once.

[Jinx]

an official faction has - by FR2 - i believe - a certain privilege to dictate a standard of roleplay ... within their own limits of faction limits ( of their own RP limits of the faction ).

we do have precidents that show that these freedoms are limited though.

in the past - the BS| - i think it was the order| precurser - wanted to make peace with the liberty forces. they were very displeased about non-factionized players who kepts shooting liberty forces - as it was not forbidden by their ID. the official faction got "reminded" that it was not their place to dictate such RP ( however - that was before FR1-5 )

now - just cause something is not forbidden doesnt mean its a good RP. - but since not everything can be put into the ID... common sense is required. - and although its sometimes deliberately not used here - i do trust that most ppl have it.


jumping zoners - as long as they do behave like zoners, there is no way any official faction can tell them what to do. - so the question is ....

... is selling jump services to others the zoner way - or not. - that is food for discussion - best to do with the OSI and TAZ ( and other non-official zoner factions )

also - maybe it IS zonerish - but not with EVERY other faction in tow - nor in any part of sirius.

- so maybe its zonerish to take hessians with you ... but not interspace
- maybe its OK to go to bretonia - but not gallia

nothing of that is really set in stone - it needs to be discussed and an agreement needs to be found what is indeed zonerish and what is not. one should keep an open mind though... when such a discussion within the zoner groups results in a ban of trading or assisting trade with certain people - or in certain regions ... EVERY zoner ( including unofficial and official factions ) should abide to it. zoners that do act against such a decision would / could be treated as "outcasts" - or non zoners - and might as well be flagged freelancers ( without zoner priviledges )

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[sindroms]

Good reply, Jinx, as expected from the Zoner man himself, BUT.

The question is, are the TAZ and OSI "ALL" the zoners. Or a group within a zoner world. In other words, if Zoners are a mass of individuals and groups settled on the outskirts of sirius, do the TAZ and OSI even have the requirements to judge the development of the WHOLE npc group.


And while the Zoner RP is loose and formed by the players, imho any faction, official or not, partakes in the evolution of RP.

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[Govedo13]

Short Answer- the Admins wont let such FR5 to happen.
No faction could dictate the RP in such way especially zoners- having 20 groups with different goals under the same ID- it is pure hands twisting and you can simply ignore it.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Hone]

I dont think its a case of "do they have the right", its a case of; "do they deserve to be FR5d". You get FR5d if you do something deserving it.

That said this is another example of why multiple factions for one NPC group is headache inducing, as there is more than one zoneer official faction, clearly it does not represent ALL the zoners.

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User was banned for: Griefing others
Time left: (Permanent)

[Echo 7-7]

Good reply, Jinx, as expected from the Zoner man himself, BUT.

The question is, are the TAZ and OSI "ALL" the zoners. Or a group within a zoner world. In other words, if Zoners are a mass of individuals and groups settled on the outskirts of sirius, do the TAZ and OSI even have the requirements to judge the development of the WHOLE npc group.

And while the Zoner RP is loose and formed by the players, imho any faction, official or not, partakes in the evolution of RP.

Are TAZ and OSI "all" the Zoners? InRP, no - I believe they themselves would demonstrate this through their Faction Info pages. Unless I am sorely mistaken, TAZ are a somewhat reclusive collective of religious observants who live in Baffin - very specifically not a governing body for the Zoner peoples. OSI are an organised, corporation-esque collective of Zoners who work together to make money for themselves and other Zoners, also indicating that they are not representing or governing the entirety of the Zoner peoples. Similarly, the Omicroners were a group of Zoners focussed on surviving and thriving in the deep Omicrons.

However, rules-wise, they have those powers anyway.

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There was a sig here, once.

[Pancakes]

I would say that in the case above this is abuse of the official faction power. Zoners selling jumping services is as much as legit as Zoners smuggling, and Zoners supplying unlawful bases which they all can, and some, do.

I -really- don't think such FR5 would go through, there is no reasoning what-so-ever behind it. Not to mention the fact that OSI never interacted with them, thus can't even fill FR5 per the rules, and even if they did - what will they tell them? "Don't make business with zoners" quite don't fit the Zoner spirit I'd say.

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD