Cruiser Solaris

[mjolnir]

Shouldn't it be up to the players how they wish to equip their cruiser/gunboat/battleship?

Sure, problem is that the same gun will have very different efficiency on a small cruiser (say BHG Dessie or RPC) and on a big BC (say Order Carrier). If it's balanced after the biggest ship it would be extremely uber on the small one.

It's the same the other way, yes I can mount 2 LMs on my BHG Dessie, but they will be useless cause I won't have energy for them.

Weapons ranges should be the maximum bomber weapons range +25%.

Ehh SN has 2k range, but does the bomber hit a cruiser that is strafing from that range? No chance. So effective range of SN vs cruiser is in reality under 1k.

Back to my original statement. I'd love to see a test a couple of bombers against a lone cruiser equipped with Solaris weapons. By rights the bombers should be dead, plain and simple... but I have a feeling this is not the case... and this is evidence of the fact that something is severely broken.

"By rights"?
2 Cruisers are about as good vs a BS as 2 bombers, while they are much better vs 2 GBs and invincible to 2 fighters. Now if 1 cruiser is supposed to kill 2 bombers, then 2 would probably kill 3.

So to counter 2 cruisers you'd need either 2 BS or 2 other cruisers? Why would anyone fly something else than cruisers or BS then?

No cruiser with solaris can not easily defeat 2 bombers, in some tests we found out that it could be pretty close, but bombers do have a slight advantage. So yes it's possible (ask Varyag) but it's not a easy.

---

Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[reavengitair]

Well, I use 14 solarises and 4 missile turrets on my carrier. Fact: It isn't that bad.

Although the carrier is big and fat, it isn't hard to avoid a bomber of two snacing from a range of 1900...

[Tenacity]

Well, I use 14 solarises and 4 missile turrets on my carrier. Fact: It isn't that bad.

Although the carrier is big and fat, it isn't hard to avoid a bomber of two snacing from a range of 1900...

And how exactly do you keep them at 1900m range when your turrets have a max range of 800m?

Ehh SN has 2k range, but does the bomber hit a cruiser that is strafing from that range? No chance. So effective range of SN vs cruiser is in reality under 1k.

I dont think he was referring to the snac. normal bomber guns have a 1000m range I believe. 1000-1100 is fine for Solarises.

---

[Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever]

I might just mount 6-7 solaris's on my RBS and see how they do.

Its not our problem that some turrets would be uber on one class of ship that uses the same turret slots as a smaller. Its the devs. It has to WORK

You cant just forget an entire shipclass, like cruisers.

They're currently good at nothing.

Not anti-bomber NOR anti cap.

[mjolnir]

You cant just forget an entire shipclass, like cruisers.

They're currently good at nothing.

Not anti-bomber NOR anti cap.

I say they rape gunboats... prove me wrong: http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...49550&st=20

---

Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Benjamin]

Gunboat Solaris Turret

Range: 500 - 600m
Refire Rate: 16.00 (or as fast as purple goddesses)
Damage: 500 - 650
Energy Drain: (Enough to drain the energy core in 25 -30 consecutive shots.)

16 shots a second and drains the entire plant in 25 shots? I'll pass.

---

Join Cryer Pharmaceuticals

[Tenacity]

I say they rape gunboats... prove me wrong: http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?sh...49550&st=20

Why should any one class be effective against only one opponent?

Fighters can deal with other fighters, bombers, transports, freighters, even gunboats.
Bombers can take down gunboats, cruisers, bc's, and battleships.
Battleships can kill gunboats, cruisers, battlecruisers, and even bombers (You've seen the solaris bs's, i'm sure)
Cruisers can take down... gunboats. Just for ****s and giggles we'll throw in other cruisers as something else they can fight.

Still, that puts them at two to 5 against battleships, two to four against bombers, and two to 5 against fighters.

A lot of people seem to think that a cruiser should be hybridized between a battleship and a gunboat - but the way that they're currently balanced, they're battleships that lack shielding, hull strength, firepower, and energy - the only advantage cruisers have is a thruster. They lack the anti fighter/bomber capabilities of gunboats, and they lack the raw capkilling ownage of battleships - you want to make them a good inbetween, you need to do something with at least one of those.

So, I maintain the opinion that the range on Cruiser Solaris should be buffed to 1100 meters, and the range on primaries and cerberus to 2000 meters. The IMG BC, LABC, and future Battlecruisers should be given Thruster hardpoints as well.

Three simple changes, none of them are going to overpower either class.

---

[mjolnir]

Why should any one class be effective against only one opponent?

Fighters can deal with other fighters, bombers, transports, freighters, even gunboats.
Bombers can take down gunboats, cruisers, bc's, and battleships.
Battleships can kill gunboats, cruisers, battlecruisers, and even bombers (You've seen the solaris bs's, i'm sure)
Cruisers can take down... gunboats. Just for ****s and giggles we'll throw in other cruisers as something else they can fight.

Still, that puts them at two to 5 against battleships, two to four against bombers, and two to 5 against fighters.

Funny how you add random classes here and there while neglecting some others as well as ignoring the number ratios. 1 Fighter surely can't take a GB, neither can 1 Bomber if the GB can fly. On the other hand if BS can "kill" bombers/gbs even though they can run away from it easily, then by same logic cruiser can "kill' a fighter or a bomber, not to mention freighters and transports that you listed as extra class for fighters for unknown reason.

A lot of people seem to think that a cruiser should be hybridized between a battleship and a gunboat - but the way that they're currently balanced, they're battleships that lack shielding, hull strength, firepower, and energy - the only advantage cruisers have is a thruster. They lack the anti fighter/bomber capabilities of gunboats, and they lack the raw capkilling ownage of battleships - you want to make them a good inbetween, you need to do something with at least one of those.

A lot of people fly cruisers like they would fly a BS, that's the biggest fail, instead they should fly them like gunboats;)

So, I maintain the opinion that the range on Cruiser Solaris should be buffed to 1100 meters, and the range on primaries and cerberus to 2000 meters.

@ Solaris, they work very well on small cruisers, don't work on the biggest BCs (which have other advantages that make them kill normal cruisers). If those big BCs get better even vs bombers/fighters, what will be their weakness then?

@ Primaries/Cerbs, most cruisers can't dodge BS fire at 2k much better than at 1.6k => they die there as well, while they can't hit GBs from that range. On the other hand with 2k range smaller cruisers (like BHG dessie) would be able to dodge other cruiser's guns and rape them. Most notably your carrier.

The IMG BC, LABC, and future Battlecruisers should be given Thruster hardpoints as well.

IMG BC and LABC trade speed for coverage and armor, so they do indeed act like small BS. So they kill other cruisers easily, but that's about it.

---

Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[akka1000]

A lot of people fly cruisers like they would fly a BS, that's the biggest fail, instead they should fly them like gunboats;)

Try flying an IMG cruiser like a GB...yeah, not gonna work

@ Solaris, they work very well on small cruisers, don't work on the biggest BCs (which have other advantages that make them kill normal cruisers). If those big BCs get better even vs bombers/fighters, what will be their weakness then?

To counter the small targets, they needs to equip solaris, that means that they can have less heavy weapons.
They are still big targets, and BS eat them even faster now with their new guns

@ Primaries/Cerbs, most cruisers can't dodge BS fire at 2k much better than at 1.6k => they die there as well, while they can't hit GBs from that range. On the other hand with 2k range smaller cruisers (like BHG dessie) would be able to dodge other cruiser's guns and rape them. Most notably your carrier.
IMG BC and LABC trade speed for coverage and armor, so they do indeed act like small BS. So they kill other cruisers easily, but that's about it.

They will only kill other cruisers if they stay and fight it out, if the other cruiser starts to lose, it can just thrust out of range and then your screwed. Also, if we take what you've said as actually being correct, Tenacity's point stands that they can only fight against 1 other class

I dont agree with all the improvements that tena is asking for, but something needs to be done, its fairly obvious ingame that cruisers are the worst shipclass right now by a long way

---

Come on, everyone!

Hark, the Bounty Hunters si-ing,
Death to all the pirate kings...

Goals: To be interviewed by Chris Hansen on Dateline NBC.

[mjolnir]

To counter the small targets, they needs to equip solaris, that means that they can have less heavy weapons.
They are still big targets, and BS eat them even faster now with their new guns

Cruiser that has 8 solaris, 2 pulses and 1 LM is exactly as effective vs BS as a cruiser with 8 primaries, 2 pulses and 1 LM.
And yes both die very fast if they are close to the bs. Right now BS can cruise to the cruiser and blast it, the primary way to counter this was already meant to come in update 1 but had to be disabled due to unforeseen bugs and will first come now.

They will only kill other cruisers if they stay and fight it out, if the other cruiser starts to lose, it can just thrust out of range and then your screwed. Also, if we take what you've said as actually being correct, Tenacity's point stands that they can only fight against 1 other class

I wrote that Tenacity's reasoning fails because he adds classes where he wants and removes them other places. If we are to follow what you say now, then BS is only good vs 2 ships of one other class in game (2 BCs) cause everything else can run from them.

I dont agree with all the improvements that tena is asking for, but something needs to be done, its fairly obvious ingame that cruisers are the worst shipclass right now by a long way

What is most obvious to me when it comes to cruisers is that they have very few good pilots.
As I said before I believe this is mostly because of other factors than cruisers themselves:
1. pirates can't pirate in them or be anywhere near a pirating group
2. "small" fights between pirate factions (OC vs Corsair, BHG vs any of them etc.) hardly ever happen, if there's a fight it happens in one of the main systems (Alpha, Gamma, Minor..) so there are usually 6+ people on each side which causes early dead to cruisers. GBs suffer from same fate in those fights, but they can be used for pirating.
3. House militaries don't really use cruisers against pirates. The reason is not so much due to their effectiveness but due to pending whining if they would and a belief that bomber group is more "fair".

---

Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.