Newbie Question: Neutral IDs

[Drake]

Uh, one last thing... I just noticed that a number of ships, such as the prison liner and Bounty Hunter battleship, are classified (at least in the ship buying menu) as 'freighters'. The prison liner has a cargo hold of 2200, and the battleship is a BATTLESHIP. This freighter status must be wrong, isn't it?

[Eppy]

The prison liner is really a freighter for prisoners-they're a commodity. The Battleship is that way becuase it classifies anything bigger than a freighter as a freighter, becuase that's what's hardcoded into the game.

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Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[AdmSirRed]

"anywhere except clan systems" they way i read and understand this is anywere except there guard systems that they have. since they always are hostile at start. for th emopst part. makeing it not main systems but places like omicron 58 and verginia and such.

*the thing of neutral id thats good is no one can pirate you* newberlin - omicron alpha ois best trade route ive been able to find

[Yngen]

"anywhere except clan systems" they way i read and understand this is anywere except there guard systems that they have. since they always are hostile at start. for th emopst part. makeing it not main systems but places like omicron 58 and verginia and such.

*the thing of neutral id thats good is no one can pirate you* newberlin - omicron alpha ois best trade route ive been able to find

"Clan" refers to player factions, it means people with pulses, not computer AIs. I'll grant you that it's a poor wording, but there's no way you can explain guard NPCs as members of a clan. When a player faction owns a system, they are one step down from being gods over that system. They can enact any law, do anything to whoever is there-that is the allure of owning a system. The longest standing factions on this server were allowed to own vanilla systems and so they get the added bonus of being able to do really interesting things in popular and active systems that other people must travel through. The exception to the nuetral ID that we speak of was included to maintain a system owner's sovereignity in their home system(s).

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[AU]Anton_Blix
-Signature by Doom

[Drake]

I could have sworn that certain larger ships, such as the Whale, are classified as 'Transports' not 'Freighters', which is how you differentiate between ships that are legal for Neutrals and which that aren't.

[Fellow Hoodlum]

Moot point guys, the Whale IS A TRANSPORT ... You cannot use it with a neutral ID, ok ... So lets move on
with this one shall we.
Carthartic attacked the Behemoth thinking it would have a trader ID, and almost rightly so. Eared read the
ship stats thinking it was a freighter, which in its original form, of course, it is.
Both are right, both are wrong ... Move along, nothing to see here now, especially you Red ...

Hoodlum

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Some say he is a proud member of: "The most paranoid group of people in the Community."

[Drake]

Moot point guys, the Whale IS A TRANSPORT ... You cannot use it with a neutral ID, ok ... So lets move on
with this one shall we.
Carthartic attacked the Behemoth thinking it would have a trader ID, and almost rightly so. Eared read the
ship stats thinking it was a freighter, which in its original form, of course, it is.
Both are right, both are wrong ... Move along, nothing to see here now, especially you Red ...

Er, I have no idea who/what you're talking about. Sorry. :)

I'm pretty sure that the Whale says it's a Transport, but there are many other ships that are called 'freighters' with nothing official that I can find saying that they are in fact 'transports'.

[Qunitinius~Verginix]

Anything with over 1000 cargo-space is usually considered a transport in my honest opinion. The Freighters are the small ones used by companys for shipping small amounts of goods and the transports are used for bulk goods.

Verginix Out

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[Yngen]

Moot point guys, the Whale IS A TRANSPORT ... You cannot use it with a neutral ID, ok ... So lets move on
with this one shall we.
Carthartic attacked the Behemoth thinking it would have a trader ID, and almost rightly so. Eared read the
ship stats thinking it was a freighter, which in its original form, of course, it is.
Both are right, both are wrong ... Move along, nothing to see here now, especially you Red ...

Hoodlum

C'mon Hood, you of all people know how vague this rule is. Look at this:

Since it was infact a whale with a nuetral ID that was attacked, not a Behemoth:

"GT-1 "Whale" Heavy Freighter

Design of the Whale was compiled by GMG engineers and later sold to different ship building corporations throughout Sirius. Whale is not a large ship as its name suggests, but it is able to carry more goods than most other transports can take aboard. This ship is rarely dispatched on longer trade routes because of its limited defensive capabilities: slots for turrets and equipment are lacking to save space for generous cargo hold"

If its a transport, the name needs to be changed. If not, the description needs to be changed.

We can't "move on" until we get a rules/mod update. Otherwise we will keep having this problem over and over again. Just like we have the same problems with other vague rules over and over again.

"Moving on" without doing something about the problem is laziness, waiting for people to naturally come to their senses or use common sense in situations like this is wishful thinking. We need very clear rules on what people are allowed to do.

I understand not wanting volumes of rules. But we don't need to have a large list of rules to be clear on what is allowed, just better writing.

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[AU]Anton_Blix
-Signature by Doom

[Kira1997]

Here I think is something definitive on this subject from Igiss himself in readme txt.

-= Fighters and Freighters =-

name weapons cargo hull nb/sb price notes
[guns/turrets]
Camara 0/6 345 8900 70 812,000 Heavy freighter
Spatial 6/1 180 28000 300 4,180,000 Space exploration vessel
X-Shuttle 6/3 245 5600 35 440,000 Armored freighter
Kadesh Freighter 2/6 190 4000 25 246,000 Middle-class freighter
Kushan Freighter 3/5 350 12000 80 1,515,000 Elite freighter
Taiidan Freighter 4/3 135 2600 18 122,500 Great ship for beginning traders
Raiders Freighter 2/6 400 15000 100 1,795,000 Heavy freighter

-= Trading Vessels =-

name weapons cargo hull nb/sb price notes

CSV 2/1 140 6000 50 162,500 Junkers' Combat Support Vehicle
Collector 2/3 160 12600 110 1,745,000 Junkers' heavy freighter
Armored Transport 2/7 480 60000 240 2,120,000 Heavily armored transport
Repair Ship 0/3 340 14600 750 1,015,000 Repair vessel
Transport 0/5 1000 50000 200 5,000,000 Transport
Large Transport 0/5 2000 80000 350 9,500,000 Large Transport
Lifter 0/5 750 40000 150 3,250,000 Lifter
Miner 0/10 1400 145000 600 8,500,000 Mining Ship
Train 0/6 3000 80000 400 18,000,000 Train
Large Train 0/6 4500 120000 500 45,000,000 Large Train, transport with the largest cargo bay
Kusari Cruise Liner 0/6 1150 75000 380 7,550,000 Cruise Liner
Liner 0/11 2600 190000 700 32,000,000 Luxury Liner
Prison 0/9 2200 140000 600 20,000,000 Prison Ship
Behemoth 2/8 2500 90000 400 14,500,000 Rheinland heavy transport
Container Transport 0/12 4400 140000 550 45,000,000 Transport with the 2nd largest cargo bay
Whale 0/0 3500 100000 450 19,000,000 Transport without turret

Ok, granted not completely definitive but a good starting point